F-84E

[Aapje]

@ComputerJones Do you have Moza?

Someone had a very similar issue when Hardware Trim Mode was off in the Moza settings: https://forum.il2-series.com/topic/4932-триммирование-самолета-помогите-разобраться/

[ComputerJones]

10 minutes ago, Aapje said:

@ComputerJones Do you have Moza?

Someone had a very similar issue when Hardware Trim Mode was off in the Moza settings: https://forum.il2-series.com/topic/4932-триммирование-самолета-помогите-разобраться/

I do indeed, and that looks exactly like the fix, thank you for pointing this out!

[ComputerJones]

For what it's worth, for anyone else that needs this: turn on the Hardware Trim Mode with Direct Input, turn OFF the auto recentering on the Advanced Settings tab and things get a whole lot better.

[Justicier10-7]

Has anyone been able to accidentally rip the wings off of the F-84 yet? I have pulled some snappy pitch maneuvering out of dives and thought for sure I pulled too hard, too fast... but nope, aircraft was undamaged. Doesn't feel right... especially considering the "weak" wing spars of the early straight-winged F-84s. While the weak spar issue was corrected in the E model, I still am concerned that maybe it's modeled a bit too strong in-game?

[Husar]

2 hours ago, Justicier10-7 said:

Has anyone been able to accidentally rip the wings off of the F-84 yet? I have pulled some snappy pitch maneuvering out of dives and thought for sure I pulled too hard, too fast... but nope, aircraft was undamaged. Doesn't feel right... especially considering the "weak" wing spars of the early straight-winged F-84s. While the weak spar issue was corrected in the E model, I still am concerned that maybe it's modeled a bit too strong in-game?

Yes, I’ve seen players exploiting this behavior with the F-84, but conversely, the F-86 Sabre can snap its wings too easily. It might be related to trim settings and speed — even a slight joystick movement can cause a wing to snap off.

Similar to the F-84, the MiG-15 can perform almost any maneuver without breaking. When you win the angle fight against it, it just fishtails up and down like a madman or goes straight up at 10+ G. 🙂

Edited August 22 by Husar

[Whittle]

6 hours ago, Justicier10-7 said:

Has anyone been able to accidentally rip the wings off of the F-84 yet? I have pulled some snappy pitch maneuvering out of dives and thought for sure I pulled too hard, too fast... but nope, aircraft was undamaged. Doesn't feel right... especially considering the "weak" wing spars of the early straight-winged F-84s. While the weak spar issue was corrected in the E model, I still am concerned that maybe it's modeled a bit too strong in-game?

What G did, or can you pull?

[Mekyro]

Do we have any information on when / if they plan to implement the bomb and rocket computer? I'm so excited to ripple off rockets and I am the worlds worst bomb-guesser. I could do it pretty good in props in GB but something about the speeds and angles the jets like to fly at is throwing me. I wish this game had the predicted impact point option in the UI so I could practice. Maybe it does and I missed it.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Mekyro said:

I wish this game had the predicted impact point option in the UI so I could practice. Maybe it does and I missed it.

It's there, you just have to enable it in the realism settings.

Unfortunately no timeline right now for when the advanced features of the sight will be implemented. 

[ComputerJones]

2 hours ago, Mekyro said:

Do we have any information on when / if they plan to implement the bomb and rocket computer? I'm so excited to ripple off rockets and I am the worlds worst bomb-guesser. I could do it pretty good in props in GB but something about the speeds and angles the jets like to fly at is throwing me. I wish this game had the predicted impact point option in the UI so I could practice. Maybe it does and I missed it.

I was having this issue, but I set myself up a quick mission, infinite ammo, no wind, and a bunch of non-shooty-backy targets and just made repeated runs with and without the aim assist visible. In about 30 mins of practice each with the F-80 and F-84 I'm now about 90% accurate conditions permitting (wind is a straight guess for me)

[Tuna_Lead]

On 8/22/2026 at 8:37 PM, Whittle said:

What G did, or can you pull?

When testing to see just how far I could push it, I was able to dive from 23k feet, pull out started at 4k feet. In the pullout, with full nose up trim and back stick, I reached
-Mach 0.93, pulling up at 3gs (far past the redline for catastrophic pitch up)
-Mach 0.87 at 7.5gs (past the redline for catastrophic pitch up, then at 1k feet)
Maximum G loading in pull out- ~11.3 Gs.
All three of the above phases of the recovery should have resulted in shedding the wings.
There was no observed damage to the wings. 

 

[Leifr]

6 hours ago, LukeFF said:

It's there, you just have to enable it in the realism settings.

Unfortunately no timeline right now for when the advanced features of the sight will be implemented. 

That's disappointing to here, the aircraft is essentially left incomplete. 

[Whittle]

4 hours ago, Tuna_Lead said:

When testing to see just how far I could push it, I was able to dive from 23k feet, pull out started at 4k feet. In the pullout, with full nose up trim and back stick, I reached
-Mach 0.93, pulling up at 3gs (far past the redline for catastrophic pitch up)
-Mach 0.87 at 7.5gs (past the redline for catastrophic pitch up, then at 1k feet)
Maximum G loading in pull out- ~11.3 Gs.
All three of the above phases of the recovery should have resulted in shedding the wings.
There was no observed damage to the wings. 

Maybe it's just my level of understanding, but why should 3gs or 7.5gs make the F84 fall apart?

My understanding of (one of the real) manuals is that pilots should not exceed 7.33G, but 11G is the structural limit. The manual indicates that more care is required at higher IAS, but not that the maximum load factor decreases with speed.

[LukeFF]

Quote

My understanding of (one of the real) manuals is that pilots should not exceed 7.33G, but 11G is the structural limit. The manual indicates that more care is required at higher IAS, but not that the maximum load factor decreases with speed.

Yes, in reality, above 7.33 G, the skin deformed, requiring maintenance and repair work. The 11 G was the designed safety margin of 50 percent, and the structural failure load was 13.75 G (so, a really strong airframe).

[MajorMagee]

Being involved with such things professionally, the dynamic loads are of more concern than the static these days. Wind gusts, hard landings, etc. are the loads that will instantaneously spike the peak loads well beyond the damage limits. The flight control systems will generally protect you from accidentally/intentionally violating most of the rest. Rather than simply piling on sand bags or lead ingots until something makes a bad noise, we now use computer controlled actuators to apply a variety of load conditions and watch the strain gauges and load cells to know when something has lost the ability to carry its share of the load.

[Philthy]

Interestingly, modern computational methods mean that structures now fail at EXACTLY the design ultimate load. So have we really made aircraft ‘safer’?

[Tuna_Lead]

On 7/6/2026 at 5:57 PM, Tuna_Lead said:

Rails, 
The F-84E's FM seems very much in development to me. I have not had any issues with lower speed behavior, I should go test this. 

Related to this, this is not from the F-84E specific manual, is it? If you found a different issue for the E model I would love to get a copy. I only have this one.

As for the higher speed behavior,
I posted a post on the 84E's specific behavior in relation to pitch up at redline:

Maybe it is better to post or link here. 
I will attach two images from the 84E specific manual AN 01-65BJC-1, HANDBOOK FLIGHT OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS USAF SERIES F-84E AIRCRAFT.
I don't want to tread any issues on copyright but this was a widely publicized manual, so this should be fine.



The warning text here is of particular interest. Page 27.

 

On 8/25/2026 at 3:45 AM, Whittle said:

Maybe it's just my level of understanding, but why should 3gs or 7.5gs make the F84 fall apart?

My understanding of (one of the real) manuals is that pilots should not exceed 7.33G, but 11G is the structural limit. The manual indicates that more care is required at higher IAS, but not that the maximum load factor decreases with speed.

@Whittle The regions I listed all (in real life) result in rapid, uncommanded pitch up of the nose. This is a well known hazard and results in shedding of the wings due to the sudden spike in Gs, well above what was initially loaded by the pilot. The fact they can be entered and passed through means the pitch up tendency is not modelled, resulting in major overperformance when turning at any speeds near the mach 0.82 redline.  If you go back to the first two pages of the thread you will see the documentation provided. I quoted one of the posts above yours here. 

Edited August 29 by Tuna_Lead
Added clarification as where to find details of pitch up in manual.

[Viking1]

Just for fun im not expecting to see this in game..

[GrumpyGnome]

COOL!!! And that's all I have to say about that.  😁

[Panthercules]

I saw a couple of posts earlier in this thread about the wing-tip drop tanks, but didn't see any final outcome/result from them.  Is anybody else having the same trouble with them that I am?  Specifically, every time I drop any bombs/napalm in the F-84 it also jettisons the drop tanks.  I checked my key binds and (as noted below) I don't have the bomb drop button assigned to anything else, and the only thing assigned to the release of the drop tanks is some key combinations I've never pressed.  This has happened in every F-84 mission I've flown (using the task editor for free-flight solo missions around Seoul for VR testing).

 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

No issue with it here.  I can drop bombs or napalm and my tanks stay on.

[Panthercules]

Weird - here's what's happening with mine when I press the bomb drop button on my MS FFB2 joystick (track files also attached):

 

I haven't consciously messed with any of the bomb selection/sequencing commands, but when I was testing with the F-86A before it would only drop one of the napalm canisters each time I pressed the bomb release button, whereas with the F-84E it's dropping both napalm canisters as well as the drop tanks with one press of the bomb release button.  I never used drop tanks in my tests with the F-86A, so I'm not sure if dropping the napalm on that plane would have also dropped the tanks - I will have to test that tomorrow.  Could there be some weird default setting for the F-84E that links the tanks to the napalm (or links both napalm cannisters to each other) that I'm not aware of here?

Tracks.zip

Edited September 8 by Panthercules

[BlitzPig_EL]

What exactly do you have the bomb drop button mapped to on the key mapping screen?

I'm guessing you have it mapped to something like "Drop stores" and not drop bombs.  The bombs on the F84 should drop one at a time.

Go to the Settings - Key Mapping tab and check carefully.

[Panthercules]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

What exactly do you have the bomb drop button mapped to on the key mapping screen?

I'm guessing you have it mapped to something like "Drop stores" and not drop bombs.  The bombs on the F84 should drop one at a time.

Go to the Settings - Key Mapping tab and check carefully.

I posted my key mapping settings a couple of posts above in this thread - it looks pretty correct/straightforward to me.  I assume that the "jettison stores" command would also drop the rockets, and since that's not happening I think that means I can't be hitting that (different) button by mistake when I'm hitting the drop bombs button.  

Edited September 8 by Panthercules

[Whittle]

The F84 has a switch at the back of the left side of the cockpit, partially obscured by the cable that runs to a light.

This switch AUTOMATICALLY flips to tip pylons after the last underwing pylons have been dropped.

Currently I monitor the switch to see if it's flipped, and this gives me a way of checking if all my underwing ordnance (except rockets) have been dropped. Flying MP often prevents checking using external views.

I have no idea if this switch should automatically flip, but I suspect not. If I am correct and the tip pylon switch was not able to automatically flip, then the system should be modelled differently so that tip pylons can't be dropped unless the pilot has selected them.

[Panthercules]

Is that switch mentioned/dealt with in the key bindings at all? (there are so many keybinds/commands that I don't have a clue what a lot of them mean yet)

Regardless, if there are going to be separate keybind/commands for dropping bombs/napalm and jettisoning drop tanks, it seems like those functions should not be combined into the bomb drop keybind.  I just tested it on the F-86A, and it turns out there is no loadout that combines drop tanks with napalm/bombs, since apparently they use the same hard points/pylons.  But I did confirm that when you take drop tanks on the F-86A the bomb release button will jettison the drop tanks.  On the F-86 I guess that's not necessarily a bad thing, since it reduces the number of buttons you have to map which is a big plus for VR, but it still seems that in the F-84E you should be able to drop your bombs/napalm without having to jettison your drop tanks at the same time, unless for some reason the actual aircraft was configured that way IRL.  Does anybody with a flight manual or other documentation for the F-84E know for sure if this is intended behavior or a bug?

BTW - I also tested the jettison stores command in the F-86A, and contrary to my earlier assumption it does not in fact jettison the rockets.  Does anybody know why that would be?  I would think that the rockets would be pretty dangerous in any situation where jettisoning your stores would be called for, but I've never seen any discussion about that issue.

Edited September 8 by Panthercules