Yak-9P

[FuriousMeow]

Sure, but he's arguing for some parity where there isn't any. The F51 pilot definitely could get a higher viewpoint than the Yak just because of canopy design.

[Valis]

Canopy design should not be the sole arbiter of view limitations.

An illustration of why this is a problem.

The MiG-15 has a notoriously cramped cockpit. And yet here's me in a 6G turn, 'standing up', and enjoying a perfect view over the nose for a tracking shot...

All thanks to the absence of realistic limits to the pilot's POV.

In reality the G forces would be trying to bury me into the seat. I'd be lucky to see over the gunsight, never mind the nose of the aircraft.

If somebody wants to argue that's realistic then please do don't 😄

[Aapje]

It's a somewhat similar problem as with the joystick, where in reality, the control forces will get very heavy at high speeds and light with low speed, and that can only properly be replicated with a hardware solution on the side of the player (in that case FFB) that make it physically hard or impossible for the player to move it, that many players won't own, and if they do, probably won't be capable or set to realistic forces. So for that situation, they change the sensitivity of the joystick in game, which mimics the difficulty change in moving the stick, but not in an actually realistic way.

For G-forces, you should be able to use a seat belt tensioner linked to Sim Racing Studio to force you to be pulled into the chair, although I've not seen anyone comment that they actually did this. In theory it would be possible to mimic this a bit in game as well by force the camera position to move to the chair and not allow you to move out of it. However, it seems to me that this is going to really mess with head tracking and VR (and probably make you sick in the latter). I also don't see how you can achieve a good gradual solution like with the joystick situation, so they'd probably have to implement some kind of abrupt solution that would be very unrealistic and weird.

So I would argue that there is no realistic software solution for this.

Note that a flight sim can never be completely realistic.

[Valis]

12 minutes ago, Aapje said:

However, it seems to me that this is going to really mess with head tracking and VR

I disagree.

I can't comment on VR out of ignorance, but as for head tracking - there are already limits to where the player can position their virtual head. The problem is the limits are incredibly lax, to the point of being able to stand up and look over the nose of the aircraft during high-G manoeuvres (as in the video).

This could be fixed - dramatically limit the range of vertical adjustment allowable in-cockpit, especially when there are G forces involved.

[Aapje]

Yes, there are limits, but they stay the same. If you make it G-dependent, then you get into situations where you are sitting forward, but then you get pushed back on screen or in the headset, despite not actually moving in real life. What then happens if the G's decrease again? Will the game automatically move you forward in the game, to match your physical position, or will you have to first move back and then forward again?  It's just a mess and a main reason for motion sickness is exactly because what you see doesn't match what your inner ear feels.

[FuriousMeow]

On 8/14/2026 at 8:53 PM, Valis said:

Canopy design should not be the sole arbiter of view limitations.

An illustration of why this is a problem.

The MiG-15 has a notoriously cramped cockpit. And yet here's me in a 6G turn, 'standing up', and enjoying a perfect view over the nose for a tracking shot...

All thanks to the absence of realistic limits to the pilot's POV.

In reality the G forces would be trying to bury me into the seat. I'd be lucky to see over the gunsight, never mind the nose of the aircraft.

If somebody wants to argue that's realistic then please do don't 😄

Nah, sorry. If you think the pilot can't find leverage to get a higher viewpoint, they wouldn't be able to hold onto the stick. This is a inch or two, not the "2 feet", or "standing up" exaggeration you use for some reason. 

Your assumptions are just wrong. You really should check out the head clearance with a pilot in the cockpit - its minimal.

I'd say you're confusing a rocket launch by NASA to escape Earth's gravity but even then they can reach the various control panels.

You keep using exaggeration though "2 feet," " standing up" when there's no such movement which is a huge indicator you have no idea. 

Plus the pilot physio model means that 'few inches' of over-the-nose shooting amounts to a greyout followed by a blackout in any scenario where you think the Gs are forcing the pilot into the seat and just along for the ride now and can't move.

Edited August 16 by FuriousMeow

[Valis]

11 hours ago, Aapje said:

Yes, there are limits, but they stay the same. If you make it G-dependent, then you get into situations where you are sitting forward, but then you get pushed back on screen or in the headset, despite not actually moving in real life. What then happens if the G's decrease again? Will the game automatically move you forward in the game, to match your physical position, or will you have to first move back and then forward again? 

A dynamic viewpoint already exists in-game; when you go in to a turn your viewpoint will sink into the seat under positive G, and raise out of the seat under negative G (which is infinitely better than the head-nodding-up-and-down thing in GB).

Plus the canopy puts limits on movement - I can reach for a coffee way across my desk yet the canopy still constrains where my in-game head moves.

Dynamic POV are already here, but they could(should) be made more realistic.

 

[FuriousMeow]

On 8/16/2026 at 1:22 AM, MiGCap said:

 You can't compare rocket launches with tight turns in jets: There You have Gz forces drawing Your blood and Your inner organs from the head to the toes, as You are sitting in Your ejection seat, but in a rocket the astronaut lies on its back and here You have Gx forces. The heart do not have to pump the blood all the way up to the head, as the body is in one level.

 

I know. I'm not comparing G effects on the circulatory system but the musculoskeletal.

On 8/16/2026 at 9:24 AM, Valis said:

The point I'm arguing has nothing to do with the grey/blackout simulation - I'll take your word if you think it's accurate, but it's not what's being argued.

Then tell me how a pilot during a 6G turn can magically grow in height - because he's not getting out of the seat.

I can re-do the video and show the exact same thing at 7G, at 8G, at 9G....etc

At what point do you say 'No, a pilot probably couldn't do that' - 10G? 11G? Where is your limit?

Because in-game right now there is no limit.

Yeah, there is a limit - the physio model that causes vision loss and blackout. You could, to use an exaggeration you love, 20 feet out of the cockpit and it won't matter when you can't see. 

Pilots don't turn into aviator stew in their seats under Gs.

Edited August 19 by FuriousMeow