AI - One vs Two at different AI levels

[Viking1]

Flew one vs 2 in my F51 today, a pair of La-11s set on veteran. I thought they did pretty well. 

 

Rd 1 - Hd to head pass. The lead guy extended and I went after the wingie. Initially he used energy well but then it was a turn fight. Knocked him down by the time #1 was back in the game. But #1 did come back and gave me a lot of trouble until I winged him then it was just a matter of time

Rd 2. Hd to head pass. Lead guy extended again but I dont think as far as the first time. before I could get hits on the wingie I had the lead on my tail and it was a furball. Eventually nailed one of them but meantime took hits and had all kinds of damage and had to exit the fight. First time I have seen my perspex shattered on top AND holes in the side plates, locked up flaps etc managed to land anyway.

Rd 3. Hd to head pass. Nearly nailed the wingie a couple times but then lead was back in the game.

From just observation one might think the wingie made a mistake getting in a turn fight with me. BUT - its a big BUT - in one vs two doctrine it was a good play because #1 is on his way back and I'm preoccupied. SO actually #2 did the smart thing and a furball with two is quite a challenge. With more time in the F51 I can probably knock one of them down faster but this is veteran level AI. Now I'll try them on Ace.

One vs Two my F51 vs 2x La-11 set on ACE

Rd 1. Completely different engagement style, instead of being happy with my head on merge they both attempted to go offset. Lead did not extend they were both in the fight from the start. This is a whole nother level of challenge. I went high hoping I could buy some time (indecision means flexibility). Then I had to choose one and got on his tail  long enough to get hits. Hung on longer and it was twist and turn, finally had a nice setup but wasnt sure where No 2 was. Sure enough when #1 leveled out I got peppered and had to induce a spin to survive. Went down low over my airfield was curious to see how aggressive they would be. Sure enough someone came after me heh so nice. Got a track file on this one I'll edit.

 

Rd 2. an advantage scenario - I'm on their tail from the start at 2.5km

So this time they split up which is the right move. First trial on this #2 went behind me and high while I engaged number one. Seems reasonable but when I shot down #1, then #2 got in a turning fight with me. Bad idea.

Second trial they also split but @2 seemed to take longer to engage. Shot down #1 then I quit the fight. There was a moment in this fight when i nearly blacked out and for just a second the bandit seemed out of control also. High Gs. 

 

Edited August 24 by Viking1

[MajorMagee]

It happens to the best of us. 

 

Bird Strike - 14 Apr 25

[SkyWolf]

That was great. We need more of these AI test results

[Viking1]

Been experimenting with ground attack AI. Simple airfield strike in TE.

My flight of four set to Veteran. All four stayed with me when I deviated from the mission plan to make an attack along airfield length. A single attack command just after the turn toward target (6 miles out) and they went to work after our first pass over the airfield. They all fly too high on target exit but all four stayed low with me on approach. 

When I switched to ACE AI all four stayed with me on my initial turn off the planned approach vector. Just before I turned toward target (6 miles) my wingman (probably No3) stayed with me and a two ship broke off for their own approach. Different behavior. I'll have to repeat to see if it holds. 

To be clear  there was no change in mission goal, I just prefer a different approach to target that avoids the majority of air defenses, and i want my flight to follow that approach with me. It was interesting in particular to see the different behavior with Ace AI.

Edited September 1 by Viking1

[AndreiTomescu]

In career, if I return from mission with some ammo, I usually try to change flight path towards an enemy airfield. There i order my wingman to attack. Tried all kind of commands, from any ground target to AAA and all other. No go. They just follow me like sheep while I blast as many parked planes as I have ammo for. Then we all merry go home.

So: what command do you use to get them into action if it's not the mission target ?

[Viking1]

Ive done this successfully at least once when we completed the mission objectives but had ordnance left. I then headed south along the coast instead of RTB. Pickings were very slim we finally found a train i think it was. When I ordered an attack .. any grd target.. a couple engaged.

[Viking1]

On 9/1/2026 at 12:16 PM, AndreiTomescu said:

Tried all kind of commands, from any ground target to AAA and all other. No go. They just follow me like sheep while I blast as many parked planes as I have ammo for. 

Im still flying the same airfield strike mission with my guys at vet or ace level trying to understand what they are reacting to.. other than the command to engage. They are obviously sensitive to terrain.l but what else? I was watching the track file yesterday and I saw something I hadn't noticed before. after my initial attack run I ordered them to engage again.. specify AAA. Then I continued my attack runs, attack.. high g turn.. attack. Watching the trk file i watched my wingies behavior after I gave the engage AAA order. They definitely responded. Two of them turned back toward target. One appeared to ready a run.. then I noticed he stood off and flew parallel to the airfield at about 3000 feet. At the same time I saw my own aircraft low over the field straying aircraft. It hit me. I think he stood off when he saw my attack. You dont want 2 high speed aircraft attacking at the same time. Ill test this theory today. After my first attack ill climb and circle wide and order them to engage while I stand off.

One thing is clear, your wingman is on a different command hierarchy. If you want him to engage I think it takes a separate order - top of the command chain when you pop up the menu.

2nd run

This time I didnt issue an order of my own until I was past the IP (7 miles west of the airfield) and then I ordered Engage AAA. I"ve noticed the AI guys take way more time to make up their minds and plan an attack run than you would expect. But they are eventually attacking. It DOES seem to help if I'm not making my own runs. Maybe the AI was designed this way because of the speeds but it takes way too long as it is now. Meantime they circle at 3000 or higher and make great targets for AAA. I'll wait for the patch.

My next career mission was a run to Suwon airfield. We really did a job on it but the top cover kept trying to take on a MiG in the hills and valleys and most of them ended their careers there.

Edited September 4 by Viking1

[AndreiTomescu]

So , to summarise, you discovered that:

- for wingmen to engage after you issue the propper command, you have to cancel any of your own attacks

- using nr 7 selection (entire group) is not suitable, it is better to order specific parts of your flight to engage

- General targets (any ground targets) is less effective compared to specific ones (like engage AAA).

Right?

[Viking1]

2 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

- for wingmen to engage after you issue the proper command, you have to cancel any of your own attacks

At least some evidence for this

- using nr 7 selection (entire group) is not suitable, it is better to order specific parts of your flight to engage

Same again, sometimes it appears true

- General targets (any ground targets) is less effective compared to specific ones (like engage AAA).

At least in some circumstances. But enough inconsistency to be hard to make clear statements. Need to retest after the coming patch. I certainly saw better engagement today but as I said, you need to give these guys time. <IMG> My wingman at K13

 

Edited September 4 by Viking1