Where is the war?

[IMGX]

I'm aware we're in early access, but there are some important things I'd like to see in the final release, for example, a war front line.

Right now, the map feels empty; we need smoke, explosions, wreckage from destroyed vehicles, anti-aircraft fire as we cross the front line—in short, a war atmosphere. I have high hopes for this; otherwise, it would be a disappointment.

Another point for improvement is the smoke after explosions. It only lasts a few seconds, which is pointless. It should last much longer because it's important for immersion.

What do you all think? I hope the developers take this into account. Thanks.

[FuriousMeow]

Have you played Great Battles career mode? That's all in there. While its limited to an area around the mission - and for good reason as that all impacts performance even if you can't see it -, this was all there - other than long lasting smoke from plane crashes. But theres no war in the current task editor/fly now so theres a reason none of that exists currently. 

[Juri_JS]

Problem with adding combat on the ground is that you won't see much of it when flying above 1500 m, but still have the performance impact. What would be usefull are more options to make areas look war torn from above. The new 3d craters already work well,  but we really need options for mission designers that allow us to destroy trees and place trench systems. 

[Jade_Monkey]

3 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

Problem with adding combat on the ground is that you won't see much of it when flying above 1500 m, but still have the performance impact. What would be usefull are more options to make areas look war torn from above. The new 3d craters already work well,  but we really need options for mission designers that allow us to destroy trees and place trench systems. 

There is a new tiled damage MCU.

 

I haven't figured out how to use it but maybe it could help?

[AndreiTomescu]

3 hours ago, IMGX said:

we need smoke, explosions, wreckage from destroyed vehicles, anti-aircraft fire as we cross the front line—in short, a war atmosphere.

yes, like in GB. there are some scripted campaigns over there where down, on the ground, it's hell on Earth. Cannons blasting, troops advancing, vehicles moving, tanks attacking and so on.

I'm sure there will be here,too.

Hope will be in the official campaign, because some of the "old" guys that did those marvelous and immersive scripted campaigns in GB, I see they're active in Korea , here , nowadays, testing the improved editor. 

Me, personally, I also hope for the "Return of the Jedi"/JadeMonkey ......episode......

[Juri_JS]

16 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

There is a new tiled damage MCU.

 

I haven't figured out how to use it but maybe it could help?

It's for destroying city blocks. Much easier than doing this in Il-2 GB, but I think you can't destroy trees with the MCU.

[gord]

4 hours ago, IMGX said:

I'm aware we're in early access, but there are some important things I'd like to see in the final release, for example, a war front line.

Right now, the map feels empty; we need smoke, explosions, wreckage from destroyed vehicles, anti-aircraft fire as we cross the front line—in short, a war atmosphere. I have high hopes for this; otherwise, it would be a disappointment.

Another point for improvement is the smoke after explosions. It only lasts a few seconds, which is pointless. It should last much longer because it's important for immersion.

What do you all think? I hope the developers take this into account. Thanks.

there isn't really a mode yet that simulates an ongoing war. that will come with career mode and future campaigns. the career mode will have a front line, just like in Great Battles. i am pretty sure you will see fighting along it as you go about your missions. 

Edited July 16 by gord

[Dash,Polder]

I hope they invest as much or even more effort in the ground AI over the air, which is probably a lost cause if it's perfection that's the goal.  There is a lot of potential here and this theater heavily and obviously leans that way.  Going back to the roots, original IL-2 didn't start out as fighter on fighter combat, it was ground attack with the fighter part slowly added on.

[Juri_JS]

4 minutes ago, Dash,Polder said:

I hope they invest as much or even more effort in the ground AI over the air, which is probably a lost cause if it's perfection that's the goal.  There is a lot of potential here and this theater heavily and obviously leans that way.  Going back to the roots, original IL-2 didn't start out as fighter on fighter combat, it was ground attack with the fighter part slowly added on.

I noticed some problems with vehicle obstacle avoidance, but apart from this issue lots of ground unit behaviour can be influenced by the mission designer and doesn't require much work on the AI. For example you can already make convoys leave the road and disperse when attacked or make tank units abandon attacks and retreat when taking too many casualties.

[Dash,Polder]

But they're still doing silly things like tanks driving off collapsed bridges after making a stop as you took it out, or trucks and jeeps driving directly into napalm after they were stopped for the strike.  They have no core survival instincts or logic to back off or flee danger they cannot engage. 

[Husar]

The smoke and dust effects should look more realistic from above, similar to real-life footage from the Korean War. The scale and duration of smoke effects have barely changed since 2009.

GB has some great-looking static smoke columns, but they are not generated by dynamic objects—they are simply placed by the mission designer. The same applies to the ground textures: they should change and show the impact of battles, especially in areas where units have been fighting and moving.

[Husar]

The smoke and dust effects should look more realistic from above, similar to real-life footage from the Korean War. The scale and duration of smoke effects have barely changed since 2009.

GB has some great-looking static smoke columns, but they are not generated by dynamic objects—they are simply placed by the mission designer. The same applies to the ground textures: they should change and show the impact of battles, especially in areas where units have been fighting and moving.

When ground units are placed, the grass and terrain beneath them should be altered. At the moment, it looks artificial, as if those large guns were simply dropped there by a UFO instead of being positioned by a crew.

[Juri_JS]

1 hour ago, Dash,Polder said:

But they're still doing silly things like tanks driving off collapsed bridges after making a stop as you took it out, or trucks and jeeps driving directly into napalm after they were stopped for the strike.  They have no core survival instincts or logic to back off or flee danger they cannot engage. 

Driving of collapsed bridges can be prevented by the mission designer, but that the AI doesn't avoid Napalm and also often drives into craters is true. For such basic stuff the ground AI definitely needs to be improved, while I would leave more complex ground unit behaviour to the mission designers.

[Husar]

@Juri_JS 

Can we paint terrain textures under objects in the Mission Editor and have those changes work in multiplayer without requiring mods?

 

For example, I'd like to paint patches of damaged soil or flattened grass beneath units placed in green fields. Right now these positions look a bit artificial, with no signs that the heavy vehicles disturbed the ground when they were moved into place. It almost looks as if they were dropped there by a UFO.

Edited July 18 by Husar

[AEthelraedUnraed]

2 minutes ago, Husar said:

@Juri_JS 

Can we paint terrain texture  under objects in ME and have this altered map run in multiplayer without mods on ?

For example I would like to do that under  units placed in the green fields , now the places look little artificial (not damaged soil, grass when those were moved at that palce) like those heavy units were dropped there by UFO. 

The terrain system is largely the same so I expect you can still do that as described in my Surface Editing Manual over at the old forums.

There are also a few objects that remove the grass, such as the artillery positions and bomb craters. I hope they add trench objects to that.

[Husar]

10 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

The terrain system is largely the same so I expect you can still do that as described in my Surface Editing Manual over at the old forums.

There are also a few objects that remove the grass, such as the artillery positions and bomb craters. I hope they add trench objects to that.

Yes, that is  great. I was actually thinking about the new features that will be/are  available in the Korea Mission Editor.

Edited July 18 by Husar

[Juri_JS]

27 minutes ago, Husar said:

@Juri_JS 

Can we paint terrain textures under objects in the Mission Editor and have those changes work in multiplayer without requiring mods?

 

For example, I'd like to paint patches of damaged soil or flattened grass beneath units placed in green fields. Right now these positions look a bit artificial, with no signs that the heavy vehicles disturbed the ground when they were moved into place. It almost looks as if they were dropped there by a UFO.

As AEthelraedUnraed already said, it should be possible. What I haven't found so far is a tool to remove trees. In some areas forests are much too dense to show certain battles, for example Heartbreak Ridge or Bloody Ridge.