Can't hit a thing in F-84 Air To Air

[Chris455]

This is almost certainly not a bug, but am I the only one that can't hit the broad side of a barn in a dogfight with the F-84E?

I have been simming for decades, and consider myself a very good shot. In most situations I will bring down my (AI) opponent with a burst or two. But with the F-84's radar gunsight, I am hopelessly missing almost every shot.

I make surer I adjust the wingspan of the target correctly, wait till I have a lock, then maneuver to get the pipper on the target before I fire. My bullets go WILDLY above, below, or to one side. 

I hope someone will have a bit of advice for this- I know the sim is new, but I cant help but wonder if my technique with this particular plane is lacking somehow.

Thanks in advance for a helpful suggestions-

Chris

[Dash,Polder]

Sight needs stability and time to calculate, it's not intended for use as a high maneuver sight, lock it in the fixed position if your going to the dance.  Remember they designed some of these primarily as interceptors.  Long ranging sight is definitely paying off on that job with defensive fire turret armed bombers. 

[Stonehouse]

Possibly also consider your convergence settings too. The bullets streams will diverge past the convergence point for something like the F-51. So if you have it set to something like 250 yards and are firing at a target 700 yards away you may find that a lot of the bullets are going to the side of the target rather than into it. I don't know whether the game convergence is to a point or a pattern x by y in area (it was this in real life) but regardless the highest concentration will be at the convergence range.

For the jets it may be different depending on how the sim reflects real life. From the 1952 Sabre pilot notes as an example - it seems like as I understand things the guns were set up to fire straight out as they were mounted close together in the nose and thereby gave a nice pattern of fire and the sight line went to the mean of the 6 guns bore lines (which were in parallel) at a desired range.

I could be misunderstanding the below in relation to the game terms, but I took it to likely mean that the game equivalent of real life would be a game convergence range of 750 yds for an F86.  Happy to be corrected as it would be nice to have a better idea of how convergence relates to the jets in game.

 

Edited July 13 by Stonehouse

[AEthelraedUnraed]

5 hours ago, Chris455 said:

I make surer I adjust the wingspan of the target correctly,

You don't need to. It's a leftover from previous models where you had to estimate the range from the target's apparent wingspan. The new gunsight uses radar for that.

As Dash,Polder says, the sight takes a while to stabilise since it effectively takes it current state from all the previous states. Hence it only really works during constant-rate turns.

[Avimimus]

I think it is also worth keeping in mind that this is essentially a radar range-finder that automatically adjusts the range setting... and the rest of the information being used by the gunsight is coming from the motion of your own aircraft (and this can take time and introduce errors).

I've found that the gunsight allows me to fire at much longer ranges against individual gently manoeuvring targets. However, I have a gunsight toggle button on my joystick and the moment that 1) the target begins to manoeuvre 2) the angle of the target is too great 3) I am too close to the target 4) a second target appears that interferes with the radar... any of those four things  - I switch off the gunsight.

1 minute ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

You don't need to. It's a leftover from previous models where you had to estimate the range from the target's apparent wingspan. The new gunsight uses radar for that.

Exactly. It is essentially the one thing the radar does - and only in a narrow beam directly ahead.

[AndreiTomescu]

Funny fact, despite myself being unable to hit .....shi....anything with that gyro/radar in air, I found it pretty useful for....ground targets! Works like a charm for that.

In the Mig15, the gyro is sooo tumbling all over (if not caged) that i found useful .... the iron one. 

Ha! WW1 techniques, all the way!

[Avimimus]

9 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

Ha! WW1 techniques, all the way!

Who needs a gunsight at all! Just walk the tracers over the target I say!!

[AndreiTomescu]

well, mate, with that fast and lovely MIG, plus those sleepy cannons, until walking the target, i have fat chanse to get empty or ram the target. hehehe

[javelina]

5 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Who needs a gunsight at all! Just walk the tracers over the target I say!!

Exactly!  "spray and pray...."

[AndreiTomescu]

Spray and pray

The old Hurricane say

But if you may

The speeds are today

Too high to just walk away

😂😂😂