The AI thread

[Avimimus]

27 minutes ago, bsones said:

Random question: Does the AI accumulate G fatigue like the player? It kind of seems like they don't, but maybe they are just better at managing it than I am. 

I think - and this is reaching back a long way in Great Battles development updates - I seem to recall that they do experience gee fatigue.

[AndreiTomescu]

So, thanks to the translucent green monkey 🙂 I have discovered the skirmish battles! Thank you, @Jade_Monkey!

A few thoughts:

- on a 4 P-80  vs 4 Mig-15 , with the AI set to average, couldn't get any Mig down , since they are very, very fast and nimble , but it wasn't quite necessary: 2 Migs  simply crashes into the mountain during maneuvers (average AI). The combat maneuvers were complex. The P-80, although a superb aircraft, excellent for ground pounding and engaging props, is no match against Mig15 in my hands

- on a 4 P-84 vs 4 Mig-15, AI set to veteran , the fight was balanced, the AI performed awesome, with quite some complex maneuvers. It was never, ever the case of simply turn. 3D combat all the time. The Migs downed about 2 P84s on each mission tried, on average. The American P-84 AI was also complex on maneuvers, but not so good as the Mig's. I managed to shoot 1 Mig down. My first!

- there is a main issue here, as @bsones observed very good: I blacked out several times in each mission, while the Mig AI pilot was quite happy during some hard vertical/horizontal turns at huge speed. In 1952, how was possible for a Mig pilot (actually with no G-suit, but, ahem...ahem...) to withstand constant huge Gs, and the opponent in a slower P-84 to black out soo fast? Probably i have to work on mu physical condition...  🙂 

- actually the hole air fight for me was how to manage those Gs. Otherwise it would have been much easier.

- the radar fed gyroscopic gunsight: how does it actually work? I tried to use it, but.....no quite effective for me. With the fixed one, Hurricane at Oddesa style, I managed the hits. Pls help, mates, if you know.

- to get wonderful scenery, the distant landscape has to be 3x. At any lower setting, at 6k meters the land looks like i'm taking down my glasses, meaning horrible, like a meshy soup. Landscape distance x3 fixes that.

- hadn't the guts to put AI on veteran, yet. Still that Gs blackout is very harsh, and afterwards pilot recovery is very, very slow.

Edited Sunday at 07:53 PM by AndreiTomescu

[bsones]

8 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

- on a 4 P-80  vs 4 Mig-15 , with the AI set to average, couldn't get any Mig down , since they are very, very fast and nimble , but it wasn't quite necessary: 2 Migs  simply crashes into the mountain during maneuvers (average AI). The combat maneuvers were complex. The P-80, although a superb aircraft, excellent for ground pounding and engaging props, is no match against Mig15 in my hands

I wouldn't feel too bad--it was no match for the MiG in the hands of real Air Force pilots, either. The MiG just completely outclasses it. 

[AndreiTomescu]

just did a couple of quick missions: Mig-15 vs P-80 and Mig-15 vs P-84. All AI on veteran.

The P-80 AI really good, did some stunts....wow. The P-84, mostly turning, turning turning. The AI, no blackouts, despite all that, me, in the MIG (with a "stolen" G-suit on), loosing consciousness harder than ever before. So i guess something is off here. 

Man, the visibility in the MIG is quite poor. Also to aim those guns, pretty hard. Heavy, very heavy bullet drop. Set convergence to 600 m, but a snapshot is really more difficult compared to any MGs. That 30mm cannon from the 109K was a delight, compared to these. No wonder the Mig pilots had a hard time hitting anything.

[Jade_Monkey]

8 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

 

@Jade_Monkey: while patiently but anxiously waiting for "The Fall of Seoul" scripted campaign 🙂 , could you tell me where did you find those skirmish missions? And if you made them yourself, could you pretty please share them, as to have some SP content upon the near future (4th aug) ? Thank you!

Just the regular quick mission from the menu

[Xtremist]

Do you think the last exam (combat mission) foreshadows the quality of carrier in the game? Namely that you can't proceed regardless your own performance because of the total incompetence of friendly ai, just like in the previous title? Wasn't this obvious in the closed beta testing? 

[Panzerlang]

23 minutes ago, Xtremist said:

Do you think the last exam (combat mission) foreshadows the quality of carrier in the game? Namely that you can't proceed regardless your own performance because of the total incompetence of friendly ai, just like in the previous title? Wasn't this obvious in the closed beta testing? 

WIP dude. The fat lady doesn't sing until full release. 🙂

[AndreiTomescu]

39 minutes ago, Xtremist said:

last exam (combat mission) foreshadows the quality of carrier

OMG, I REALLY hope NOT! 

What is giving me hope (besides Joana 🙂 ) is that , as I I've tested in quick missions, in air combat the veteran AI performance is good, and for some aircrafts really good. (Average is nasty, they are ploughing the hills like our Mig-21s before the Falcon upgrade).

So I reckon that the air AI has been worked upon (hopefully not completely, there is a laaarge room for improvement), and the ground combat AI, not at all, like it's not existent now.

To be noted that in all my testing with quick missions I have filled the tabs with the ground targets, as to increase and test cpu load. Despite the radio controller ordering the friendlies to engage ground targets, they ignored him completely. Air targets, they engaged with some good effectiveness.

So.....

Edited Monday at 11:44 AM by AndreiTomescu

[Xtremist]

1 hour ago, Panzerlang said:

WIP dude. The fat lady doesn't sing until full release. 🙂

I wouldn't expect wonders from ONE further month of developement... Dude. 🙂

Edited Monday at 01:28 PM by Xtremist

[AndreiTomescu]

Gentleman, one more AI report: me in my Mig-15 vs P-80 ACE level. The ace level is better than veteran, duh.... but not hugely different. Still, due to pending blackouts, the only way to get to him was either high speed snapshot head-on from higher altitude, or 90 degrees snapshot. With those cannons, a bit difficult. After about 35 min of dancing, during which i came to love this fatty silver bullet i have managed only two hits, none lethal. During the last one i've hit his belly, the DM and graphics were WOW. My only problem now was that i had only 11 bullets in each canon. And the guy was still trying to land on me !!

So i've remembered the good and bad old days from the eastern front...... Lured him between some hills, and went down, down, treetop level, like it was in my 109 with no ammo and 3 angry YAKs on my tail..... 50- 30 meters, down the river valley, hugging hills and turning trees.

I've discovered that the AI is still cautious about this: at first he stayed above the hills. So i've slowed down, and the trap was set. Kaboom! I've killed this beautifull silver straighter with ... a hill. Call me names, but i've liked it.

Afterwards, landed an the nearest airfield, and had a chat with the mechanics.

 

Edited Monday at 03:58 PM by AndreiTomescu

[Blutaar]

You can change the g-force model in the settings until they fix it for the AI. That way you can at least pull as hard and as long as the AI can.

[AndreiTomescu]

@Blutaar wow, thx! I would love to do that!!

Could you share some know how?

What file?

What setting? From what value to what value?

I'm afraid of messing things up, due to my limited knowledge, and I really wouldn't want to cancel the hole setting from the difficulty menu, that would be too arcade.

I guess this g force fatigue is their approach to the WoTR style, but the AI itself failed to play by the same rules, I guess.

Thank you very much! 

Edited Tuesday at 06:22 AM by AndreiTomescu

[Blutaar]

2 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

@Blutaar wow, thx! I would love to do that!!

Could you share some know how?

Uff i dont know exactly because i im not on my PC right now but look at the difficulty settings in the quick mission builder thing. Its called pilot physiology or something similar. There you also can change a bunch of stuff like unlimmited ammo and so on. 

[Avimimus]

On 7/5/2026 at 10:38 PM, AndreiTomescu said:

just did a couple of quick missions: Mig-15 vs P-80 and Mig-15 vs P-84. All AI on veteran.

I think it is important to be realistic in our expectations here:

The F-80C is only superior to the Mig-15Bis in horizontal manoeuvrability at speeds below 450 km/h (i.e. prop speeds). At higher speeds it is inferior in horizontal manoeuvrability, and it is inferior to the Mig in speed and climb at all altitudes.

The F-84E is inferior to the Mig-15Bis in level speed, climb, and horizontal manoeuvrability.

So the fact that these first generation fighters are having trouble downing the second generation Mig-15Bis, and are mainly fighting defensively, should be unsurprising (and is historically accurate). They could defend themselves to a degree, and they could at times get kills if a Mig pilot was unwary, but they couldn't really go after the Migs - the F-86 was needed for that.

[AndreiTomescu]

28 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

these first generation fighters are having trouble downing the second generation Mig-15Bis, and are mainly fighting defensively

Yes, of course. I was just pleasantly surprised of how GOOD these AI s, on veteran level, handle themselves, especially the P-80. I was the Mig, by the way..... 🙂 

If you're suggesting that actually i was lame, really lame, since my Mig found some first generation jets on AI control good, well....you might be right also..... 😉 

They didn't cheat or something, but the blackout for the AI is certainly not a problem, compared to the player's situation: very fast blackout. 

Imho, in this field (plus the tactical AI !!) there is a critical need for improvement. 

But patience in this case ain't just a virtue, it's a necessity.

I would like to try a scenario as 4 Mustangs vs 2 Migs. Let's see how that goes.

And you know me, guys, my best weapon are the hills.... 😉 Eastern Front training, baby! 🙂 

Edited Tuesday at 09:58 AM by AndreiTomescu

[Avimimus]

I actually don't tend to fly the Mig-15Bis because I find its lack of responsiveness at high speeds makes it very hard for me to aim. 🙂 So certainly no critique on your flying skills.

[AndreiTomescu]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

I actually don't tend to fly the Mig-15Bis because I find its lack of responsiveness at high speeds makes it very hard for me to aim. 🙂 So certainly no critique on your flying skills.

oh, don't you ever worry! I love to joke, especially about myself and and mostly some criticism is welcomed: we have a saying here " every kick in the butt might be a step forward"

Have to admit that myself being an exclusively SP player, i certainly have poorer skills compared to the PvP guys. But I play for the relaxation the good immersion brings. Medium age brought less competitivity and maybe some wisdom, as Catch said.... 🙂 

About the Mig's responsiveness : yep, and also those cannons are sooo hard to bear to target, but i guess it'm more due to bullet drop, althought low rate of fire and so few seconds of firepower (Spitfire MkIb, 60 rnd/gun !!) are a factor.

Also, the uncaged gunsight i found a bit useless, since the reticle is very large and always gets way out of the glass. None-the-less, i really love this plane.

And I will always have the hills......despite the fact that the P-80, with its roll rate, it's imho the best jet for getting really low.

Edited Tuesday at 01:59 PM by AndreiTomescu

[Dash,Polder]

Personally I think they've turned off the G modeling on the AI for now, GLock was always there in Great Battles and it was quite easy to hook one into an unconsciousness state and thrash or crash them. 

That same model of AI here with higher speed and faster G onsets would be catastrophic until it's fully tuned and adjusted, which I think is a work in progress, hence turning it off.  You can see AI still has issues handling a low down fight among mountains and its super easy to induce splatter into a rock with their new speeds.