Dev Blog #75: MiG vs. Sabre

[LukeFF]

MiG-15bis vs. F-86A Sabre: Who Would Win in an Air Combat?

This question has been troubling combat aviation enthusiasts for decades. Two legendary fighters from the Korean War—two different approaches, two philosophies, two paths to victory.

Who's stronger in a duel? The answer isn't as simple as it seems. We'll explore all the pros and cons, comparing maneuverability, climb rate, armament, and even pilot equipment!

Read the full analysis in the article on the official website: https://media.il2-korea.com/news/dd_75

[Red_Dragon]

Its awesome! BTW It is very interesting how a roll-wing drop / валежка of the MiG 15 will be implemented? There is one simulator where this  roll-wing drop / валежка is for a different wing each time, then the left, then the right. But this is somewhat implausible. After all, if I fly in the company on the same plane, then a roll-wing drop should be the same?

Edited June 5 by Red_Dragon

[Elem]

Beautifully described analysis! Well done team for choosing this theatre and the attention to detail that you have clearly done!

[kendo]

What a great update! Now that's really got me excited. 😃

[Turbo-Mouse]

Going to fly these two after I've flown all the other aircraft, want to save the best till last. 

[Bussard]

Very nice screenshots! The light and shadow effect on the aluminium surface looks fantastic!  

[LuftManu]

Great writeup! Can't wait to fly both of these beasts! 

[Lofte]

Quote

a radar warning system on the MiG-15bis

As far as I know, this system was first used only in July 1952. And for some time it had reliability problems.

[LuftManu]

10 minutes ago, Lofte said:

As far as I know, this system was first used only in July 1952. And for some time it had reliability problems.

Hi Lofte!

I had interest in this so I did a bit of research too. 

It's designer wrote about it here: https://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/matskevich_vv/index.html

 

"The station's normal range was 8-10 kilometers, but when false signals were detected, I "coarsened" the sensitivity to 5 kilometers. This, as the pilots confirmed, weakened the false signals. But in a real combat situation, signals of a Sabre's approach appeared not at a range of 8-10 kilometers, but at 4-5."

"And then, one particularly unfortunate day, several pilots, returning from combat missions, reported that the station had been signaling the presence of Sabres, but there were no attacking aircraft! And these false signals were legion!"

"The next morning, the planes took off. The sirens worked perfectly, just as they had in the early days. The source of the interference, as everyone now knew, was the detectors. They're so graceful, so thin, so delicate. A spring rests against a crystal. When the spring vibrates, contact with the crystal is interrupted and then restored. The resulting sparking creates false signals in the pilot's headphones."

Vibrations caused the system to fail, but it was later fixed and running up again! The birth of the Sirena SPO. 😄

I hope it's a modification!

Some users also spotted two different airbrakes on the MiG-15Bis, so I hope we got plenty of toys to play with! 

[Dash,Polder]

Depends on which one Chuck is in.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Lofte said:

As far as I know, this system was first used only in July 1952. And for some time it had reliability problems.

Yes, it'll be a mod. 

[Leifr]

Exciting! I've been sceptical of the project for a long time, but in the last month or two it's really coming together in a fantastic way. I can't wait!

[Bell]

I feel very angry.

This is caused by the MiG having a noticeably higher maneuvering G-limit: after all, the Sabre has a limit of 7 G, and it is recommended not to exceed 6.

Although Sabre has 7G limit,MiG-15bis has 8G limit too.I still remember I watched the Enigma DCS MiG-17F interview video nearly three years ago saying F-16 does 9G turn and MiG-17F does 6G turn,although I know MiG-17F is not MiG-15bis.

The Sabre has a more critical problem: at high speeds

This is the most infuriating part for me.As is known to all the high-speed handling of MiG-15bis is very poor, and Sabre can't be worse than MiG-15bis.Of coursr I know Sabre also has high-speed handling issues, I'm just dissatisfied with this written description.

[Avimimus]

40 minutes ago, Bell said:

I feel very angry.

This is caused by the MiG having a noticeably higher maneuvering G-limit: after all, the Sabre has a limit of 7 G, and it is recommended not to exceed 6.

Although Sabre has 7G limit,MiG-15bis has 8G limit too.I still remember I watched the Enigma DCS MiG-17F interview video nearly three years ago saying F-16 does 9G turn and MiG-17F does 6G turn,although I know MiG-17F is not MiG-15bis.

The Sabre has a more critical problem: at high speeds

This is the most infuriating part for me.As is known to all the high-speed handling of MiG-15bis is very poor, and Sabre can't be worse than MiG-15bis.Of coursr I know Sabre also has high-speed handling issues, I'm just dissatisfied with this written description.

I feel like it might be a bit premature to feel angry...

1. The Mig-17 and Mig-15 are different aircraft. The Mig-17 video states that the Mig-17 can sustain a 6 gee turn as an airshow manoeuvre. This says nothing about the operational aircraft and says nothing about what the certified structural limit is. If you are concerned that the Mig-15 will be more manoeuvrable than the F-86, the dev diary states that the F-86 has a number of aerodynamic features that make it superior in a turning fight. Furthermore, the Mig-15 pilots will lack g-suits until 1953... which will lower the number gees they can pull.

2. I gather that the second sentence (that you don't quote entirely), is stating that the pitching moment increases at speed leading to greater sensitivity of the elevator controls and requiring the pilot to exercise some care to not turn too sharply when pitching up (as the aircraft is responsive enough that overstress is a risk if flown carelessly at transonic speeds).

I suppose the development diary implies that structural break-up is a bigger risk than wing-drop and rudder coupling issues... anyway, in about twenty days you'll probably be able to test this for yourself.

[Kongo]

2 hours ago, Bell said:

I feel very angry.

This is caused by the MiG having a noticeably higher maneuvering G-limit: after all, the Sabre has a limit of 7 G, and it is recommended not to exceed 6.

Although Sabre has 7G limit,MiG-15bis has 8G limit too.I still remember I watched the Enigma DCS MiG-17F interview video nearly three years ago saying F-16 does 9G turn and MiG-17F does 6G turn,although I know MiG-17F is not MiG-15bis.

The Sabre has a more critical problem: at high speeds

This is the most infuriating part for me.As is known to all the high-speed handling of MiG-15bis is very poor, and Sabre can't be worse than MiG-15bis.Of coursr I know Sabre also has high-speed handling issues, I'm just dissatisfied with this written description.

For the first point i believe you misunderstood. The structural limit is around 10 G which is about there where the wing will probably break off. The other sim does NOT model this right. the 6 Limit is what the the technical manual recommends and also what your ground maintenaince chiefts tells you. My question is whether wing bending is going to be modeled when you pull around 8-9G and its slight adverse effects in flight. The Mig 15 Bis had a stronger thicker wing so it had a higher structural limit.

The sabre also had high speed issues in both the roll and pitch up tendency. I attached two images straight from the manual.This was improved in the F-86 E with the all moving tail. I agree the wording could have been better though. 

 

The one thing i´m not sure i agree on is the service ceiling: the sabre could not reach the migs altitude in any practical sense. Only the  F-86F could get close and depending on the weight...

[Dash,Polder]

I'm just crossing my fingers holding out hope there will be edges on their flight envelopes and you can't do wild stick stirring garbage or hang at stall speeds with completely no concerns of tumbling out of the skies and nearly infinite nose authority for those magical half kilometer gunnery shots.  And flap ---- rule no more.

[AndreiTomescu]

Read the dev blog. It seems to me they really put some effort into studying those airframes and trying to reproduce their specific characteristics. 

"And since so much depends on the pilots' knowledge, one can confidently say that these two aircraft are equal. This is a case where the balance of the confrontation is not artificially constructed, but drawn from life by reproducing the machines as they are."

Taking this into account, and hoping not to open Pandora's box and sparking useless complains about the past, I'm wondering: how well the AI of this each particular aircraft will take into account its strengths and weaknesses ? May he hope for some challenging offline duels ?

[Kongo]

16 hours ago, Dash,Polder said:

I'm just crossing my fingers holding out hope there will be edges on their flight envelopes and you can't do wild stick stirring garbage or hang at stall speeds with completely no concerns of tumbling out of the skies and nearly infinite nose authority for those magical half kilometer gunnery shots.  And flap ---- rule no more.

Abso-effing-lutely. The entire il-2 community hopes so. It would be a huge let down if nothing was done here....

Edited June 7 by Kongo

[Bell]

On 6/6/2026 at 8:34 PM, Kongo said:

For the first point i believe you misunderstood. The structural limit is around 10 G which is about there where the wing will probably break off.

You misunderstood me too.The 7g of Sabre corresponds to 8g of MiG-15bis.

On 6/6/2026 at 8:34 PM, Kongo said:

the 6 Limit is what the the technical manual recommends and also what your ground maintenaince chiefts tells you.

Sorry I watched the video nearly three years ago so I didn't remember it right.I watched it again, 6g is for sustained turn. 

On 6/6/2026 at 8:34 PM, Kongo said:

The Mig 15 Bis had a stronger thicker wing so it had a higher structural limit.

Really?I think the Sabre's lower maximum load factor(7g comparing to 8g) is due to Americans being more cautious, just like the P-51D MAX. DIVING SPEED 505 I.A.S. placard in cockpit.

From book 'F-86 SABRE VS MiG-15 Korea 1950-1953'

From DCS MiG-15bis manual

Edited June 7 by Bell

[Kongo]

1 hour ago, Bell said:

You misunderstood me too.The 7g of Sabre corresponds to 8g of MiG-15bis.

Sorry I watched the video nearly three years ago so I didn't remember it right.I watched it again, 6g is for sustained turn. 

Really?I think the Sabre's lower maximum load factor(7g comparing to 8g) is due to Americans being more cautious, just like the P-51D MAX. DIVING SPEED 505 I.A.S. placard in cockpit.

From book 'F-86 SABRE VS MiG-15 Korea 1950-1953'

From DCS MiG-15bis manual

I´m not sure what your point is.  The wing drop and roll effect from transonics will apply to both aircraft as stated in the blog. In the mig , it happens sooner, however this can be corrected by use of rudder as it is with both jets in the other sim(this is to be confirmed in il 2). and you could go past mach 0,95 in the mig until stick forces are too heavy. THe sabre has better control here and can go past mach 1. The f-86 A however cannot increase speed further below 25000 feet for structural integrity reasons.. There there is no problem. Furthermore, in my understanding the auto airbrakes was introduced in later production mig 15s and only deployed when altitude was below 5000m, as per manual. 

now in the mig manual it is listed that the max permissible is 8g, just like the americans was 6 and later revised to 7. The structural failure is i think 11 to 12 G, as is in the other sim... 

 

Edited June 7 by Kongo

[AndreiTomescu]

Reading No Kum Sok's book (the N Korean defector with a Mig15bis) i found out that in '53 both Collins and Yager tested extensively the Mig15 and they both found out that in any mock dogfight with a Sabre the better pilot always won. Despite No's constant and annoying emphasis throughout all the book that the Sabre was hugely superior. I guess he was trying to justify his less stellar performance as a fighter pilot.

Very anxious to test this encounters in the sim. I have to admit that this book made me quite willing to prove myself he was underevaluating the Mig's efficiency. 🤷‍♂️

[AndreiTomescu]

Some interesting statements from this book (No Kum Sok's statements):

- Max efficient shooting range: Sabre 1km, Mig 300m

- max dive speed : Mig mach 0.96, Sabre Mach 1+

- Sabre unable to keep climbing with the Mig

[Avimimus]

On 6/13/2026 at 12:13 AM, AndreiTomescu said:

- max dive speed : Mig mach 0.96, Sabre Mach 1+

I wonder which version of the Sabre this is? Also, I wonder if it is independently confirmed? Being able to theoretically break the sound barrier in a wind tunnel or being able to think you've broken the sound barrier IAS... isn't necessarily the same as pulling it off.

[AndyJWest]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

I wonder which version of the Sabre this is? Also, I wonder if it is independently confirmed? Being able to theoretically break the sound barrier in a wind tunnel or being able to think you've broken the sound barrier IAS... isn't necessarily the same as pulling it off.

The earliest Sabres didn't have an all-moving tail, and would quite likely have lost pitch control at transonic speeds. Later Sabres seem to have been just about capable of supersonic speeds in a dive though, as illustrated when Jacqueline Cochran became the first woman to go supersonic, in 1953. 

FAI article

[Avimimus]

52 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

The earliest Sabres didn't have an all-moving tail, and would quite likely have lost pitch control at transonic speeds. Later Sabres seem to have been just about capable of supersonic speeds in a dive though, as illustrated when Jacqueline Cochran became the first woman to go supersonic, in 1953. 

FAI article

The record states 1,087.68 km/h