Preparing for Korea : knowing the history

[AndreiTomescu]

Comrades/Fellow/Kameraden Pilots !

A new chapter in air history is ready to be born. The devs choice, Korean War, i find both bold and inspired.

Still, for me this sim is a sim of historical reenactment. 

For that purpose, and because my knowledge regarding this pivotal conflict was unacceptably scarce, I started to read upon the topic. Found several online books (.pdf format) regarding the air war in korea, and started to improve my knowledge. One particular book concerns the history of the North Korean air force, a subject quite scarce presented in general.

My question is: would it be allowed to post links to my google drive here as for those interested to gain acces to those materials? Are any copright/ rules broken in doing so?

Also : do you have access to some russian/chinese/korean sources regarding the matter ?

[Avimimus]

It is against the rules to post links to copyrighted works. You can, however, recommend books - or even probably repost short excerpts (as that would fall under fair-use). Just don't post any links to sources that are pirating material.

[AndreiTomescu]

Good thing I asked !! Thank you !

[brickcommander]

If someone wants a broader view of the war (and world war ii by the way!), Indy nidell's series on youtube is pretty cool. He does a week by week discussion of the war, every episode representing a real life week. I like to listen to him while driving.

[Swoose]

I learned a lot by reading MiG Alley: The US Air Force in Korea 1950-1953 by Thomas McKelvey.  From the book's description on Amazon.com:

Titled after the wartime nickname for the part of North Korea that was the epicentre of a bitter struggle for air superiority over the Korean Peninsula, MiG Alley offers an in-depth analysis of the US Air Force's war in Korea, packed with interesting and exciting personal stories based on first-person testimony from both American and Soviet sources.

Following the end of the Korean War, the prevailing myth in the West was that of the absolute supremacy of US Air Force pilots and aircraft over their Soviet-supplied opponents. The claims of the 10:1 victory-loss ratio achieved by the US Air Force fighter pilots flying the North American F-86 Sabre against their communist adversaries, among other such fabrications, went unchallenged until the end of the Cold War, when Soviet records of the conflict were finally opened.

Packed with first-hand accounts and covering the full range of US Air Force activities over Korea, MiG Alley brings the war vividly to life and the record is finally set straight on a number of popular fabrications. Thomas McKelvey Cleaver expertly threads together US and Russian sources to reveal the complete story of this bitter struggle in the Eastern skies.

[Dash,Polder]

Knowing all the history still won't help you win 'teh war' in game.  I like the fact they strive to give us the weaponry of the era and mimic it the best they can, but it's developing ones own tactics with the tools provided that's the biggest fun factor for most of us.   History will never play out, but a few tactics may be integrated into the old bag of tricks depending on how deep and good the sim physics are modeled.  Those are worth seeking out, but unfortunately that kind of tactical information is exceedingly rare in record.  

Edited June 5 by Dash,Polder

[Juri_JS]

If you want to read about North Korea's perspective on the Korean War, search for:

History of the just fatherland liberation war of the Korean people

An interesting read, if you don't mind the tone and the somewhat different interpretation of certain events.

[LukeFF]

There are a lot of good open-source articles on the US Marine Corps website, including this one: https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/U.S. Marines in the Korean War PCN 10600000100_27.pdf

"CORSAIRS TO PANTHERS: U.S. Marine Aviation in Korea"

[Lofte]

5 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

My question is: would it be allowed to post links to my google drive here as for those interested to gain acces to those materials? Are any copright/ rules broken in doing so?

Just give us book's name - we'll find and read it :-)
Such thread already was at old forum - Reading tips on the Korea theater

Let me remind my links from there:

3 volumes of declassified work by R. Futrell from 1952-56 about the actions of the US Air Force in Korea.
1. Robert F. Futrell - United States Air Force Operations in the Korean Conflict, 25 June-1 November 1950 >>> 
2. Robert F. Futrell - United States Air Force Operations in the Korean Conflict, 1 November 1950 - 30 June 1952  >>>
3.1 Robert F. Futrell - United States Air Force Operations in the Korean Conflict, 1 July 1952-27 July 1953 (p.1-180)  >>>
3.2 Robert F. Futrell - United States Air Force Operations in the Korean Conflict, 1 July 1952-27 July 1953 (p.181-361)  >>>

Edited June 5 by Lofte

[AndreiTomescu]

3 hours ago, Dash,Polder said:

Knowing all the history still won't help you win 'teh war' in game

i'm not keen on winning anything except a bit of time in which my mind is so absorbed with what's happening as it is disconnected from the current life. A form of deconnecting/meditate, if you like. To achieve it, i need to know the history. plus I love history.......

3 hours ago, Dash,Polder said:

Those are worth seeking out, but unfortunately that kind of tactical information is exceedingly rare in record

like this

" The bombing technique that the 502d TCG devised for nighttime CAS
was simple. An aircraft was given a vector from a TACC at Taegu or Pyongtaek
to intersect the narrow-beam MPQ or the later, improved MSQ-1 radar,
and it was directed to contact the radar controller at one of the Tadpoles. Upon
contact, the controller specified the altitude, airspeed, and heading the plane
was to fly. The controller already had the coordinates of the target, obtained
from the ground forces, plotted on his map. He then used his tracking radar to
provide a visual reference of the aircraft course to the target. At a certain point
the radar controller ordered the aircrew to open the bomb bay doors and arm
the bombs. At 10,000 yards from the target, the controller began a countdown
to “zero,” the time at which the bombardier dropped his bombs. Though simple,
the technique proved very effective."  

Found many others tactics in the book Down in the Weeds

3 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

History of the just fatherland liberation war of the Korean people

this kind of stuff I  was searchinf for. THX!

what i found so far:

-  Down in the Weeds : about CAS and ground attack

- The Korean War: Land-Air Aspects

-  Fury from the North : the only so far dedicated to N Korean aviation

- Korean Air War: Sabres, MiGs and Meteors

- The Korean War: A history

- Within Limits

 

[AndreiTomescu]

3 hours ago, Dash,Polder said:

 History will never play out

yes, yes, but it's worth it to know at least (and in detail) who you are in the sim and what are you doing there . Like the big and medium picture. Of course that's my desire, anybody else might and should approach the hole settings as it pleases. No harm in either way. But if you are US, you might have learned quite alot about Korea, just as i have about the eastern front. Same time, I had no idea (except for a suuper vague info) about Korea, and if i'm to give a run over there, i'd like to know what went on.

[GrumpyGnome]

1 hour ago, AndreiTomescu said:

But if you are US, you might have learned quite alot about Korea,

Yes, US personal know a lot about Korea.

The clerks run the base.

The nurses are easy.

Everyone drinks, a lot.

If you are a major or above, you are incompetent.

And the entire war is put on for the Doctors.

Oh, wait just one little moment, that was just in the M*A*S*H units.

Never mind don't know to much.

[Juri_JS]

For the North Korean side I also recommend:

A MiG-15 to Freedom: Memoir of the Wartime North Korean Defector Who First Delivered the Secret Fighter Jet to the Americans in 1953 written by No Kum-sok

I wonder if any books are available that deal with the South Korean Mustang pilots?

 

[AndreiTomescu]

4 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

I wonder if any books are available that deal with the South Korean Mustang pilots?

 

Tangential and NOT exclusively in "Fury from the North". So far. 

[AndreiTomescu]

I will report when I find something. Hoping that this might be useful for a scripted campaign, maybe.....🙃

[AndreiTomescu]

A few observations from what I've read so far. For MASH -type users, not for those knowledgeable.

- most UN combat missions were CAS and CAP, so dogfights weren't as usual as in ww2

- 40% (!!) of combat sorties were flown by USN and USMC, so i guess i know where the future dlc will go to

- Mustangs were hugely important, al least in the first 2 yrs of combat

- the Yak9 was very, very efficient and performant: the P-51 pilots declared the yak9s as being "quite slower but much more maneuverable"; in a dogfight with the P-80 they could actually hold their own fine

- the Il-10 were lost in significant numbers, despite being so rugged and resilient. The Il-2 mith of ww2 reached its dawn

- the constant disagreement between various air and infantry branches of US forces proved disastrous

- the use of radar as to guide aircraft to targets was very beneficial, but it was reinvented from scrap, since ww2 lessons were forgotten (!!)

- a new use of aircraft developed was rediscovered, since the British used it before : the aerial forward controller. It was hugely useful for strikes only a few yards from own forces

......to be continued.....

Edited June 7 by AndreiTomescu
thx Avimimus

[JollyJack]

17 hours ago, GrumpyGnome said:

Yes, US personal know a lot about Korea.

The clerks run the base.

The nurses are easy.

Everyone drinks, a lot.

If you are a major or above, you are incompetent.

And the entire war is put on for the Doctors.

Oh, wait just one little moment, that was just in the M*A*S*H units.

Never mind don't know to much.

Now i just put it together .... how do i get is in IL2 Korea? 

[Aapje]

3 hours ago, JollyJack said:

Now i just put it together .... how do i get is in IL2 Korea? 

You go to bed and dream it.

 

 

[Avimimus]

12 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

- a new use of aircraft developed: the aerial forward controller. It was hugely useful for strikes only a few yards from own forces

I think this was well established before then - certainly in British practice anyway.

[Avimimus]

If one wants something to watch or listen to while doing chores - I've been combining the history videos into a common thread:

 

[AndreiTomescu]

Finished the "Fury from the North" book.

- well written, quite concise

- includes many quotes from actual pilots/mission reports

- describes actual encounters

- gets into tactics and equipments

- contains some relevant photos

- although the main protagonist and the book's subject is N Korean airforce, talks about everybody involved (actually misses the RN) but it's clearly written by an american: somehow biased

- very good for mission making, good to get a picture

- includes all types of air action: fighter, CAP, CAS, interdiction, night bombing, focused on N Korean actions.

[LuftManu]

Thanks for all this info! Really interesting! 

[Juri_JS]

1 minute ago, AndreiTomescu said:

Finished the "Fury from the North" book.

Unfortunately Dilby had no access to North Korean archives and had to use American, Chinese and Soviet sources only. There is certainly a lot we don't know about North Korean air force operations yet. For example the missions flown by the KPAF's La-9 and La-11 are still mostly unknown, except for a few cases when American aircraft reported encounters.

[MajorMagee]

Did you know that the only Navy Ace in Korea flew a Corsair from a land based assignment to down 5 Bedcheck Charlies?

Naval Aviation In The Korean War - Aircraft, Ships, and Men by Warren Thompson ISBN 978 1 84884 488 9

[AndreiTomescu]

The Korean War: A History : i'm about half way throught it. A bit....surprised.

Written by an american author, but very, very.....anti-american. And hugely anti-jap. The declared aim is to be impartial, but my sensation is that it tries to "level the score" by leaning to port. 🙂 Maybe i got used to the western view, and that's why i fell like this.

The book is a historical , political analysis of the events. Doesn't have much military value. 

Its main theme is that despite Korea being a united nation for about a millenia, its seccesion was due to the different approach regarding Japanese occupation. Some (north) opposed that, some collaborated (south). And that triggered the rupture. The author's view is that no unification or one side winning the war was possible due to this deep dissidence that is alive today even.

The book analyses also the main characters, from different nations involved. A picture with the actual N Korean leader as a baby is quite funny !!

The books main flaw, in my personal opinion, is that it judges yesterday's decisions and events throught today's eyes. And that's not fair, nor usefull.

Despite the aggressive tone against S Koreans, UN/US and the somehow surprising approach taking in regard the author's apparent allegiance, the book is worth reading if you don't mind this. Of course there are 2 sides of each coin. But this book is NOT between them.