Campaigns - how do you … ?

[GiftGruen]

Since I was shot down two times already in my Gruenherz Dora Campaign in the first 5 missions and just repeated the mission to succeed.

How do you play campaigns?

Restard the complete campaign from beginning in case of ‚death‘ or ‚prisoned‘ or do you just repeat the mission to reach campaigns next steps?

[AndreiTomescu]

Ground Hog Day. (the movie...)

I repeat the mission until I am able to get a veridic outcome, like survival/land back to base, and try to learn something helpful from the previous mistakes that got me killed.

For example, in Wind of Fury, mission 6 (Lions got out of cage) had to repeat that mission 13 (!!) times due to my inability to survive. To just run for home when wingmates were in trouble, wasn't accurate. To try Ground attack instead of cover, not quite possible due to heavy flak. To deal with 8 angry Doras, very hard. The answer i found was to jump clouds and come back into the fray at a high speed boom&zoom, that gave me 2 kills, and managed to nurse my battered plane (half tail missing) home somehow. The losses for our squad were 6 out of 8, for 2 Doras lost (mine) and some 2 parked jets (courtesy of my colleagues).

Some missions are a bit insanely hard. But they might be true: a squadron attack the airfield unaware of defending planes, the high cover is outnumbered, there is a mess.

So I repeat the mission, but my initial goal is not to have to. Like do my best to get mission complete the first time. But sometimes it doesn't work, especially with older campaigns where some settings and mission logics are messed up by game/AI updates.

[kraut1]

9 hours ago, GiftGruen said:

Since I was shot down two times already in my Gruenherz Dora Campaign in the first 5 missions and just repeated the mission to succeed.

How do you play campaigns?

Restard the complete campaign from beginning in case of ‚death‘ or ‚prisoned‘ or do you just repeat the mission to reach campaigns next steps?

-I play campaigns like a pilot career:
-if I am dead or taken prisoner I will restart the campaign or start another one...
-Self created campaigns: I fly each mission directly after the mission is created. And if I am wounded for example the next mission will be created maybe 1,2 or 1 month later.
-All (selfcreated) missions are successful after 10 seconds to avoid, that maybe an heroic dogfight + damaged crash landing is not counted just because some formal target objective requirements are not completed. (just a small group that can be installed in all campaign missions).

-for some decisions if I am really dead or prisoner I am using an excel table with many, many random values for different situations:
   -how long you are unfit for duty when you are wounded.
   -if you ditch or bail out over see: have you survived or not under consideration of the distance to the shore, and the weather / temperature.
   -if you bail out over enemy lines: I am prisoner if I bail out close to enemy airfields, ground units. But over not dense populated forrests, hills,... I use random values if I was able to escape to the friendly lines or if I have been taken prisoner or beeing killed. (in Former times I have created in Arma2 Iron Front  such missions for bailed out pilots to escape)
   -and I estimate the change if the pilot has survivied as a prisoner or not... (e.g. at the eastern front or in the Pacific).
   -And if I die because of potential AI simulation fails (rammed by AI wingman during formation flight)...

 

-In former times I recorded my campaign missions in an excel logbook.
-Now I am using IL-2 Campaign Tracker and Service Record" by Arrow_1974:
1941-09-10-Pilotenstatus-Frontflugspange in Bronze.pdf
-For each career, campaign I create a subforlder in my "Hall of fame" folder, beginning with the air victories...

...

 

 

Edited May 4 by kraut1

[IckyAtlas]

27 minutes ago, kraut1 said:

I play campaigns like a pilot career:

Wow! This makes you a real flight sim career "professional".

If you fly the planes with the same methodology, rigor and organization you should have had an excellent learning curve and be today a pretty damn good and dangerous sim pilot.

 

 

[Kubert]

I consider campaign finished only when I make successful no death run. Usually it takes only one or two tries. If I'll die during a first try, I continue, but for a second try, I'll restart from mission one. Nowadays rarely happen that I'll die twice during the first playthrough, or at all in the second. In my begginings yes, but not anymore. My priorities are survival, objective, kills. In this order. Sometimes kills over objective, if situation allows and I become greedy. Trying to avoid that, but nobody is perfect.

I remember, in campaign Iron Wind when we, four(?) La-5s, once met 8 IARs. Despite altitude advantage in the beggining we ended up in disadvatage. When three IARs got to my level and started closing a gap between us, I've just dived down and ran away. Mission failed. Enemy bombers were not intercepted, my guys shot down maybe two IARs, but we returned home safely to fight another day. For me it is better result than get 3 kills after two mission restarts due to death. Even hard situations can be handled properly when you switch from offense to defense in right time.

Edited May 4 by Kubert

[sandmarken]

When I'm making campaigns, I try to have only a landing or survival as a requirement for mission success. I really do not like it when a set amount of victories in the air or on the ground are needed for mission completion. While the missions are scripted and should have a predetermined outcome, there should always be some sort of flexibility. Sometimes, for example, the enemy AA or AI fighters at a target decide to all focus on the player, something the creator has less influence over. Other times, a wingman could be the unfortunate one. I can play the same mission twice, and in one play, it's easy; the next time, it's really hard. Because of this lack of control, I would expect the player to self-decide how to solve the objective, just as I guess real pilots had to. 

[AndreiTomescu]

What changes from a play to another? I mean, besides player's actions. Are there random elements? The AI reacts differently?

While testing some campaigns, I had to do the same mission like 10 times. And I've noticed that some missions were developing quite similar, and some not really. I'm curious as to how much is simply "fate" and how much i can help a different outcome (arriving in a certain spot earlier/later, jumping bandits earlier than wingmates-AI fixation-, different strategies, giving orders or not, etc)

[sandmarken]

1 hour ago, AndreiTomescu said:

What changes from a play to another? I mean, besides player's actions. Are there random elements? The AI reacts differently?

While testing some campaigns, I had to do the same mission like 10 times. And I've noticed that some missions were developing quite similar, and some not really. I'm curious as to how much is simply "fate" and how much i can help a different outcome (arriving in a certain spot earlier/later, jumping bandits earlier than wingmates-AI fixation-, different strategies, giving orders or not, etc)

There are tools in the editor to add randomnes/chanse to missions. For example % of possible of spawning aircraft ect. And ofc as you said the AI has its own life and might react different. Sometimes the AA get an odd hit and shoot down a plane to alter outcome for example.

[Jaegermeister]

8 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

What changes from a play to another? I mean, besides player's actions. Are there random elements? The AI reacts differently?

While testing some campaigns, I had to do the same mission like 10 times. And I've noticed that some missions were developing quite similar, and some not really. I'm curious as to how much is simply "fate" and how much i can help a different outcome (arriving in a certain spot earlier/later, jumping bandits earlier than wingmates-AI fixation-, different strategies, giving orders or not, etc)

A different approach or arrival timing can make a huge difference in AI behavior. The enemy fighter AI has a tendency to lock on to whatever aircraft they spot first and keep that fixation for the duration of the encounter. 

If you are out in front of your flight, they will gang up on you and all chase you around while your wingmen do nothing. If you were to change this initial contact and the other planes in your flight were out front at the merge, the enemy AI will focus on them while you take your time getting behind the enemy and picking off the stragglers.

There are other examples of how to use the enemy AI against itself, but this one is the most typical.

Also yes, some missions have random events. I don’t remember which mission it is in Operation Munchen, but there are 3 different sets of 3 types of enemy aircraft that will spawn randomly when encountered. You could have 6 enemy or 12 in the same encounter.

 

Edited May 5 by Jaegermeister

[GiftGruen]

… playing the ‚Gefechtsverband …‘ - campaign right now, I was killed two times already in the first 5 missions and one time had to bail out directly to prison in Sibiria 🙃

Well. Just to curious how the campaign goes on. Not enough of a true sportsmannto start from scratch again every time.

Some true admiration from my side to the folks who take it more serious and more disciplined!