PC Spec query

[robzerg]

Hi All

I'm thinking of dipping my toes in VR, and apart from needing a VR headset (seem to be able to pick up Quest 2 headsets 2nd hand very cheaply), I'll need a better PC...

I don't want to extend too far in terms of costs, so have been looking at 2nd hand systems...  Would the below spec (image attached too) be suitable for VR in IL-2, and possibly for Korea when released) - even if I have to turn the settings right down for the latter?

 

i7 12700K

32GB DDR4

GeForce RTX 4060

 

Many thanks!

 

[GiftGruen]

Hi. I‘d rather go for the Quest3 ( not Quest3S ! ) which is way better than Quest2 and is also available for good prices.

For IL2 GB the 4060 may be sufficient, however, even the omder 3070 performs better. For Korea you can probably expect that you need to tune down a lot of settings.

The Rest of the PC Spec looks fine imho.

So … if you are able to do so … maybe a little higher Spec in Graphics Card and VR headset really makes sense.

[dgiatr]

25 minutes ago, GiftGruen said:

Hi. I‘d rather go for the Quest3 ( not Quest3S ! ) which is way better than Quest2 and is also available for good prices.

For IL2 GB the 4060 may be sufficient, however, even the omder 3070 performs better. For Korea you can probably expect that you need to tune down a lot of settings.

The Rest of the PC Spec looks fine imho.

So … if you are able to do so … maybe a little higher Spec in Graphics Card and VR headset really makes sense.

Defenetly go for quest3 (not quest3s) instead of quest2. I own both quest2 and quest3, the last one is far more better...

[robzerg]

Great, thanks .  The thing with the Quest 2 vs 3 is I can pick a Quest 2 up (used) for around £50, whereas a quest 3 would seemingly cost £200+, so whilst better is it 4x as good?

 

 

[Dash,Polder]

I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate graphically Korea will perform better than Great Battles ever will with that video card, now the CPU may be another story, but it's not all that far behind.  Great Battles just isn't written for taking full advantage of a modern video cards capabilities, and never shall, it's most painfully apparent in the horsepower it requires to deliver an even high quality image in VR.  You can't seem to ever make a huge gain no matter the cash you throw at it, the diminishing returns just expands exponentially.  

Get the best in equipment you still need that you can, and wait and see with the rest. 

[GiftGruen]

43 minutes ago, robzerg said:

Great, thanks .  The thing with the Quest 2 vs 3 is I can pick a Quest 2 up (used) for around £50, whereas a quest 3 would seemingly cost £200+, so whilst better is it 4x as good?

 

 

Well, for 50 you do nothing wrong. Allows you to try VR.

( Hmm - if you sum up the price for PC and VR Headset, it‘s not factor 4 - is it ? )

the only thing is, if you come to the conclusion that VR is uncool, based on old hardware, this conclusion is maybe wrong 😉

[Aapje]

20 hours ago, robzerg said:

Great, thanks .  The thing with the Quest 2 vs 3 is I can pick a Quest 2 up (used) for around £50, whereas a quest 3 would seemingly cost £200+, so whilst better is it 4x as good?

Imagine needing glasses and wondering whether you should get the really cheap glasses with the wrong prescription from a charity shop, or more expensive lenses that actually make you see sharp.

£50 is not that much and can be a good buy just to test it out and see whether you like it, and whether you suffer from unsolvable issues when using VR like some do, but for me the quality of the Quest 2 is simply unacceptable compared to the much better quality of the Quest 3.

 

[dgiatr]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

Imagine needing glasses and wondering whether you should get the really cheap glasses with the wrong prescription from a charity shop, or more expensive lenses that actually make you see sharp.

£50 is not that much and can be a good buy just to test it out and see whether you like it, and whether you suffer from unsolvable issues when using VR like some do, but for me the quality of the Quest 2 is simply unacceptable compared to the much better quality of the Quest 3.

 

Agree with you. The problem is that you don't know how much quest3 is better than quest2 if you don't have both. It's a little difficult to believe other people saying that.

[robzerg]

I've got the new (2nd hand) PC :-)

Hopefully the following will be sufficient to run IL-2 (and possibly IL-2 Korea) in VR?:

Ryzen 5900x

32GB DDR 4 3600mhz

RX 6800 XT - 16GB

1tb SSD

 

Now I just need to find a bargain on a used Meta Quest (ideally Quest 3) headset

 

[Aapje]

Five years ago, people reported relatively low performance with the 6000 series cards. Not sure whether that has been fixed since. But in principle it should be enough to run IL-2 in VR.

For Korea I expect that such a system would need at least significant upscaling and tuning. Not sure whether that will allow for a good result. We will have to experiment once they release the game.

[robzerg]

Early signs are really promising on flat‑screen mode. Being able to run in 4K and actually pick out enemy aircraft at distance is a game‑changer, and the steady 60fps (monitor‑limited, but rock solid) makes aiming and judging lead so much smoother.

Fingers crossed I can track down a headset soon and finally try it in VR.

[robzerg]

Update: I've just ordered a 2nd hand Pico 4 from fleabay - these seem to be good value, sitting between the Quest 2 & Quest 3S in price, but being closer in spec to a Quest 3.  I've heard the software is a little fiddly, but hopefully nothing chronic!

 

[GiftGruen]

Ah - not so bad I think, as soon as you have it up and running please share your impressions, could be interesting for some of us ‚pilots‘ !

[LuftManu]

Hi @robzerg

AMD RDNA 2 3 and 4 cards perform poorly against their Nvidia counterparts in Il-2 Great Battles. Both in VR and Screen.

They are perfectly working, but their Nvidia counterparts have a big advantage over them, even if they shouldn't have. I don't know if this is because of DX11.

For example a new 9070XT won't outperform a 4-5 year old RTX 3080 in this game, when it outperforms it in other engines.

Please check: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k/edit

[robzerg]

That's quite the spreadsheet !

There isn't anything quite like my setup on the sheet, so I'll report how it runs once the Pico 4 headset has arrived (should come hopefully come Thursday/Friday in time for the bank holiday) 

 

[Aapje]

Pico results should be similar to the Quest 2/3.

[Intrepid]

The Pico 4 will give you a taste of VR but will I fear it will leave you feeling frustrated.

IL-2 is one game where headset resolution really counts.

Trying to spot small dots in the distance then ID the plane is really helped by having a high resolution headset.

Even at moderate distance with low resolution headset the plane can just looks black, making it very hard to ID. 

 

I started with a Oculus Rift and I couldn't tell which way planes were flying at times, until almost on top of them, spotting was non existent and even ground target was incredible hard to see.

I moved up to a HP Reverb G2 with 6800XT and still had a very difficult time spotting planes, I was constantly out spotted by squad mates using monitors. Moving to a 3080 helped.

Currently have a Pimax Crystal OG and a 5080. Game is great to play at this level of resolution. I can spot as good as any of my squad mates and ID planes quickly.

Most importantly I can see planes against the ground, something that was very frustrating with lower resolution headset, as a plane would just disappear against a forest.

In anticipation of Korea, I have upgraded to a AM5 system and noticed I'm getting even better visual quality out of the Crystal OG headset. I've also just ordered a Crystal Super OLED headset, which should make shadowing look better and the colors far richer.

Yes it cost a lot, but the experience of VR at high resolution is worth every penny IMHO, particularly when you have gone though the frustration of low resolution blindness. 

If you give VR a good go, it will be hard to go back to a monitor and you will want to upgrade.

 

Trep

[robzerg]

Thanks Intrepid, great to get a toe in the water nonetheless

I've been playing with the Pico 4 today (arrived yesterday) and I have to say... I'm impressed! 

Pico Connect was a bit of a faff, and after trying to switch it to OpenXR it stopped working with IL-2, so fortunately a quick purchase of Virtual Desktop solved all of these issues.  I haven't played with the settings too much, but my initial observations are:

- The cockpits are amazing - it's fantastic how much more detail you can see in VR, and all the little details around toggles, handles and how the instruments stick out really pops! Plus the difference in size between different cockpit's really stand out!

- Aiming (after an initial period of adjustment) is much easier, eg on a recent mission with the recent 190 A-6 campaign I bagged 5 kills (about 5x as many as my usual tally)

- Distant aircraft look a bit fuzzy (probably in line with Itrepid's comment's re. resolution), but as soon as they get closer they look great

- Very easy to track aircraft around the sky and get a feel for where everything is - something I occasionally struggled with even with TrackIR

- I never realised there's a full 3D model of an IL-2 behind the loading screen - I find myself peering round the edge of it when opening the game (shame I can't just hide the loading screen and admire the IL-2 unobstructed!

I'm sure I'll think of more, but right now I'm really buzzing with how amazing the overall VR experience is - way better than I expected 

 

 

 

Edited May 2 by robzerg

[GiftGruen]

That‘s great that you have such a good experience already your first day in VR!

May I ask which ingame graphical settings you are running, which panel resolution / oversampling and how much fps you achive ?

Edited May 3 by GiftGruen

[robzerg]

I've been playing with the settings a bit over the weekend, and at the moment have the following at 72fps, which matches the standard refresh rate of the Pico 4, though I've been playing with 90hz to see if I can tell the difference (I can't).

Open XR Toolkit installed, with resolution set to match (as close as I can get) the headset.  I don't understand why, but it seems to think the standard resolution is greater than the 2160x2160 per eye that it is; currently I have it scaled at 84% to match this resolution, with FSR enabled. I'll try to scale this back up to see if it makes any difference.

Fairly standard setup in game graphics; Balanced, Med clouds, 70km dist, normal grass, mirror, SSAO & HDR off (don't seem to need them in VR).

I was getting very bad stuttering yesterday, till I realised that the wifi connection to the Pico must be very good (and not shared) when Open Desktop is launched, otherwise it scales the bitrate right back causing some very awful glitches.

Still blown away by the VR immersion; the cockpits are just masterpieces, and have loads of details I never previously noticed, some of which can only really be seen in VR (such as the sides of the gunsight, or all the interesting gubbins in the footwell).