A few questions that I now got a new rig...

[Aapje]

16 hours ago, daiphan said:

Winwing stuff is expensive and looks to be very high in quality ! Dai 

They recently changed their name to WINCTRL. They are actually more of a budget highend option. Their biggest issue is very poor customer service. Most of their products are decent, but not their entry level joystick, the Ursa Minor. It has serious quality issues. This is why I don't recommend that product, even though it would be a great budget option without the quality issues, because the general design choices are actually good, they just executed poorly.

Virpil and VKB are definitely a step above them, not just in the quality of the products, but especially in the customer support.

Then you have the force feedback (FFB) options, which add a whole layer of immersion, but are considerably more expensive and are still a very immature market. For now you have budget FFB options from Moza (who have software quality issues), and a more expensive option from VPForce. WINCTRL and Virpil are also working on FFB options, but those are not yet released.

[daiphan]

2 hours ago, kalerider1 said:

Very happy VKB user here (throttle, stick and rudder pedals).

For practice I can recommend utopioneers tutorial missions. https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/58501-flight-school-campaigns-english-german-french-italian-spanish/

Thank YOU very much! Dai 

44 minutes ago, Aapje said:

They recently changed their name to WINCTRL. They are actually more of a budget highend option. Their biggest issue is very poor customer service. Most of their products are decent, but not their entry level joystick, the Ursa Minor. It has serious quality issues. This is why I don't recommend that product, even though it would be a great budget option without the quality issues, because the general design choices are actually good, they just executed poorly.

Virpil and VKB are definitely a step above them, not just in the quality of the products, but especially in the customer support.

Then you have the force feedback (FFB) options, which add a whole layer of immersion, but are considerably more expensive and are still a very immature market. For now you have budget FFB options from Moza (who have software quality issues), and a more expensive option from VPForce. WINCTRL and Virpil are also working on FFB options, but those are not yet released.

I am surprised nobody here mentions the Thrustmaster Warthog system. It is an old release but any good as the price is up there? Dai 

[GiftGruen]

I also owned vkb stuff ( Gladiator Evo ww2 stick + ww2 throttle +  rudder pedals) and was very happy with it. 
 

Changed Hotas to Virpil Throttle + WinWing Panel Combo and stick to Vkb Gunfighter with 200mm extension. I love the vkb KG12 Grip for warbirds.

Virpil is heavy metal and feels very cool. However, the cheaper plastics VKB stuff had somewhat superior button switches / mechanics. Never had a WinWing or Warthog stick/throttle.

Internet tells Warthog sticks to be inferior in exactness/robustness ( compared to vkb / virpil )

 

Edited April 14 by GiftGruen

[OSIW]

Warthog stick is fine. Base not so much. That`s why I use the stick on a Virpil base.

Warthog throttle is ok, if you get the newer version with the slew upgrade.

In the end, I`ll upgrade to Virpil for everything, except pedals. There I`m using mfg. They`re great and not that expensive. 

[daiphan]

Hi all,

Looks like I am going for the Virpil. Is this a good bundle to get? Dai 

VIRPIL US | WarBRD-D CADET H.O.T.A.S Bundle - ALPHA Prime Edition

 

[GiftGruen]

For sure good quality - but maybe not enough buttons. If you want to get rid also of keyboard at least.

Keyboards are somewhat immersion breakers ( and in VR unusable )

But … whay dont you stick at your current setup for now? Its absolutely okay for learning and having fun!  You can upgrade later on if you really feel that you like this hobby.

 

[daiphan]

40 minutes ago, GiftGruen said:

For sure good quality - but maybe not enough buttons. If you want to get rid also of keyboard at least.

Keyboards are somewhat immersion breakers ( and in VR unusable )

But … whay dont you stick at your current setup for now? Its absolutely okay for learning and having fun!  You can upgrade later on if you really feel that you like this hobby.

 

I have played sims since 1991 -1997 then I did not get back till 2010 of and on. I just bought a powerful PC and a 98" TV so I am serious on getting back. Dai 

[Aapje]

4 hours ago, daiphan said:

I am surprised nobody here mentions the Thrustmaster Warthog system. It is an old release but any good as the price is up there? Dai 

The Warthog is 15 year old technology. Even back then they in part chose the perception of quality over actual quality. In particular, they made everything heavy and used a lot of metal, because people associate metal and weight with quality. But they actually use low quality metals. The heavy joystick would destroy the base with a lighter spring, so they put an extremely heavy spring in there. You can't tune it to a more comfortable spring tension without custom modding, and then risking damage. Even with the heavy spring, the thing is known to implode.

In contrast, the VKB Gladiator comes with sets of springs, so you can tune it to your comfort.

The main reason why many people rate the Warthog highly is because it was good for the time, and shortly after it was introduced, flight simming became far less popular and the big companies stopped investing in hardware development. So it was the best option on the market for a while, until small Eastern-European brands like Virpil and VKB outcompeted it, as they did keep innovating. And more recently, the Chinese have gotten into the mix, but quality control is an issue there.

So anyway, my advice would be to only buy a Warthog if you are in a country where buying online from the better brands is not an option due to immense tariffs. For example, South-Africa and Turkey seem to be really bad in that regard. Thrustmaster has a solid distribution channel in brick and mortar stores. Otherwise the Warthog is simply too expensive for what you get, for the normal pricing.

[daiphan]

29 minutes ago, Aapje said:

The Warthog is 15 year old technology. Even back then they in part chose the perception of quality over actual quality. In particular, they made everything heavy and used a lot of metal, because people associate metal and weight with quality. But they actually use low quality metals. The heavy joystick would destroy the base with a lighter spring, so they put an extremely heavy spring in there. You can't tune it to a more comfortable spring tension without custom modding, and then risking damage. Even with the heavy spring, the thing is known to implode.

In contrast, the VKB Gladiator comes with sets of springs, so you can tune it to your comfort.

The main reason why many people rate the Warthog highly is because it was good for the time, and shortly after it was introduced, flight simming became far less popular and the big companies stopped investing in hardware development. So it was the best option on the market for a while, until small Eastern-European brands like Virpil and VKB outcompeted it, as they did keep innovating. And more recently, the Chinese have gotten into the mix, but quality control is an issue there.

So anyway, my advice would be to only buy a Warthog if you are in a country where buying online from the better brands is not an option due to immense tariffs. For example, South-Africa and Turkey seem to be really bad in that regard. Thrustmaster has a solid distribution channel in brick and mortar stores. Otherwise the Warthog is simply too expensive for what you get, for the normal pricing.

Thank you and I see the good reviews were 15 years old. Recent reviews are not so good. I know this is a bit of off topic but I also want to get into MFS so with that I decided to go with the highly rated Honeycomb A/B/C system (joystick, throttle and pedal). With that being said do I need a new rig designed for the GA?  Like 2 rigs side by side (One for combat flight sim and other is for GA?). Thank you so much for your expertise on this. Dai 

[GiftGruen]

So then .. the stick you‘ve chosen is an explicit desktop model. Sparing room.

since you have a rig this makes not much sense. A Throttle with more axes and buttons makes sense.

Since you already fly, imagine where to place the important functions ( trimmimg, flaps, gears, map modes, lights, commands, engine and prop and mixture control )

Since you anyway seem to be willing to spent a lot of money, I‘d take a ‚bigger‘ Throttle.

[daiphan]

3 minutes ago, GiftGruen said:

So then .. the stick you‘ve chosen is an explicit desktop model. Sparing room.

since you have a rig this makes not much sense. A Throttle with more axes and buttons makes sense.

Since you already fly, imagine where to place the important functions ( trimmimg, flaps, gears, map modes, lights, commands, engine and prop and mixture control )

Since you anyway seem to be willing to spent a lot of money, I‘d take a ‚bigger‘ Throttle.

Ah yes, when I start to imagine myself of getting more involved like GA, the more complex things become. I say for now let's concentrate on a fighter rig first with quality Hotas system like Virpil or VKB. Dai 

[Aapje]

1 hour ago, daiphan said:

I know this is a bit of off topic but I also want to get into MFS so with that I decided to go with the highly rated Honeycomb A/B/C system (joystick, throttle and pedal). With that being said do I need a new rig designed for the GA?  Like 2 rigs side by side (One for combat flight sim and other is for GA?). Thank you so much for your expertise on this. Dai 

To mimic most GA aircraft, you need a yoke, but a joystick works fine with GA, but a yoke is not good for combat aircraft. So my advice is to just try out MSFS with a joystick and only get a yoke if you find yourself spending a lot of time in MSFS and don't find the joystick satisfying enough.

I don't rate Honeycomb that highly. Their yoke is OK, but mainly because it is relatively cheap for what you get. I would get anything else from other brands. But to be honest, I think that you just need to fly more now, and spend less. Because you are already looking to replace stuff you just got.

[daiphan]

7 minutes ago, Aapje said:

To mimic most GA aircraft, you need a yoke, but a joystick works fine with GA, but a yoke is not good for combat aircraft. So my advice is to just try out MSFS with a joystick and only get a yoke if you find yourself spending a lot of time in MSFS and don't find the joystick satisfying enough.

I don't rate Honeycomb that highly. Their yoke is OK, but mainly because it is relatively cheap for what you get. I would get anything else from other brands. But to be honest, I think that you just need to fly more now, and spend less. Because you are already looking to replace stuff you just got.

Thank you very much for your reply. For GA what do you think of Thrustmaster TCA ? I did try out MFS with joystick and that does not cut it. Dai 

PS: Been flying and shooting down lots of Ju-52s 🙂 

Edited April 14 by daiphan

[Aapje]

TCA is also a joystick, so I don't understand why that would help. Going from one mediocre joystick to another mediocre joystick seems like a lateral move.

I also wonder why your joystick isn't cutting it for MSFS? It really should be perfectly fine. I wonder if you are just having a hard time with MSFS?

My advice is to start with the WBSim Cessna 152 mod that you can get from here: https://discord.com/invite/4QjzFyGJHK

It is a relatively simple plane, but very well modeled and it has plenty to learn, including the basic autopilot, and it also support a much more advanced flight computer. Here is a video on how to start with it:

For MSFS, I would advise to look at plenty of tutorial videos. There are a lot of good ones out there, that can teach you how to master a basic plane like this, which is key before going for the more complex stuff.

[GiftGruen]

Yes, agree with Aapje.

Look - if you want to have a fighter rig, you need a HOTAS layout ( HandsOnStickAndThrottle )

Means your right hand always grips the stick, therefore a throttle quadrand for the right hand is not a good idea, also neither flaps nor anything else. Your right is glued to the stick.

For civil flight like MSFS this fighter layout works, but maybe doesnt feel perfect. Tbh - having it perfect means in consequence: Having two rigs. Even the most expensive Virpli set will feel somewhat strange for an civil plane. 

Personally I‘d go for a fighter layout because flying a Spit with Airbus-Controls is totally weird, and my personal preference is fighters rather than Airbusses.

I have the feeling that you throw away money by not knowing what you want and/or need. Your actual setup is okay for learning. Use it, buy later on.

Sorry for beeing so direct.

Edited April 14 by GiftGruen

[daiphan]

6 hours ago, GiftGruen said:

Yes, agree with Aapje.

Look - if you want to have a fighter rig, you need a HOTAS layout ( HandsOnStickAndThrottle )

Means your right hand always grips the stick, therefore a throttle quadrand for the right hand is not a good idea, also neither flaps nor anything else. Your right is glued to the stick.

For civil flight like MSFS this fighter layout works, but maybe doesnt feel perfect. Tbh - having it perfect means in consequence: Having two rigs. Even the most expensive Virpli set will feel somewhat strange for an civil plane. 

Personally I‘d go for a fighter layout because flying a Spit with Airbus-Controls is totally weird, and my personal preference is fighters rather than Airbusses.

I have the feeling that you throw away money by not knowing what you want and/or need. Your actual setup is okay for learning. Use it, buy later on.

Sorry for beeing so direct.

No problem at all and thank you for your guidance, Dai.

 

[Shinobimono]

16 часов назад, GiftGruen сказал:

and in VR unusable

Not exactly. Numpad' keys, top and bottom rows, etc. could be easily recognized. I still use my keyboard for rarely needed commands.

But of course for Il-2's 1.5-buttoned aircraft it's not necessary. 😌 

[Sashka13]

18 минут назад, Shinobimono сказал:

Но, конечно, для самолёта Ил-2 с кнопками 1,5 это не обязательно. 😌 

Само собой, ведь это не твой любимый "кувшинчик"!

[Kubert]

I am using keyboard + trackIR and can fly without looking on it. My eyes are 100% of time on the screen. All you need to do is bind buttons which are easy to find by touch. My key binding allows me to control everything...RPM, mixture, boost button, all radiators, trimmers, supercharger, manual prop.control, bomb and rocket selector, gear, flaps, all lights and everything else without looking. Even things as commands, screenshot or track recording...because I binded it that way. Keyboard is definitely usefull for VR. It is possible to use it when blind.  

Edited April 15 by Kubert

[GiftGruen]

Well, true of course.

But it‘s rather the hard way to do it, in my opinion - and since Dai anyways plans to spend money for a new setup, I‘d consider convenience in usage.

Spending 800€ for a Virpil setup and then needing the Keyboard for a lot of functions is not the best idea I think.

 

[Shinobimono]

40 минут назад, Sashka13 сказал:

Само собой, ведь это не твой любимый "кувшинчик"!

Переведи мой текст нормальным переводчиком, пожалуйста. Я говорил про игру Ил-2, а не самолёт, это ясно видно из конструкции фразы.

Пользуются всякими Яндексами, а потом пишут не по делу.

[MajorMagee]

My X52 Pro HOTAS has enough buttons, switches, toggles, and sliders that I hardly ever need to go to the keyboard or mouse. The advantage over the keyboard is that a single press can do what it takes two hands on the keyboard to accomplish. The ergonomics of the HOTAS layout for me makes it more reliable that I'll hit the right input than my finding a key combination on the keyboard without looking.

[daiphan]

3 hours ago, MajorMagee said:

My X52 Pro HOTAS has enough buttons, switches, toggles, and sliders that I hardly ever need to go to the keyboard or mouse. The advantage over the keyboard is that a single press can do what it takes two hands on the keyboard to accomplish. The ergonomics of the HOTAS layout for me makes it more reliable that I'll hit the right input than my finding a key combination on the keyboard without looking.

Yes keyboard really drags the immersion down. That is why I program the red lever to be auto pilot. If I get lost just a pull on the lever and it gets me straight on track. The Saitek 56 looks really good though. Dai 

[daiphan]

Hi all,

The TV stand is here waiting for the 98". Dai 

Edited Wednesday at 10:34 PM by daiphan

[Catch]

I think you should have got the 100" screen Dai. Two extra inches makes a difference I'm told.