Aircraft climb and ceilings

[Flashy]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if (and when) any changes were made to the high-altitude performance of the WW1 planes? I guess its a very old change at this point, but on a few occasions now I have noticed that the aircraft just arent climbing very well over 10k, and their ceilings seem to be pretty low. For example, I was on Flugpark last night and after more than an hour of climbing (paying close attention to my mix and temps) in the S.E.5a, I couldnt really get her much higher than 17k ft.. Its been a while since I have been up that high, but I seem to remember being able to get the S.E.5 to 20k fairly easily back in the old days..

Other planes are also climbing pretty badly.. try getting the R.E.8 up past 13k and you will see what I mean.. Thoughts?

Edited December 8, 2025 by Flashy

[BlitzPig_EL]

R.E.8 to 13,000ft?  I can barely get that underpowered manned target vehicle off the ground!

[Flashy]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

R.E.8 to 13,000ft?  I can barely get that underpowered manned target vehicle off the ground!

haha okay that one is a bit more understandable.. the ol' Harry Tate doesnt like to go too high, but the S.E.5 seems to really struggle to get up to 17k. I have read some accounts saying the ceiling was around 17500 for the S.E.5a, but most accounts talk about getting up to 20+k (Mccudden and Lewis both come to mind)  

[Avimimus]

11 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

R.E.8 to 13,000ft?  I can barely get that underpowered manned target vehicle off the ground!

 

If you really want that experience - I recomend the Roland C.II...

[BlitzPig_EL]

I have had some success bombing Entente facilities with it, on some missions I have built.  My secret is to not climb to "high" altitude, and come in low and "fast" and glide bomb with it.

[Avimimus]

13 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I have had some success bombing Entente facilities with it, on some missions I have built.  My secret is to not climb to "high" altitude, and come in low and "fast" and glide bomb with it.

That would be the way to go - although contemporary Entente scouts have a higher dive speed than the maximum speed of the C.II, so if you can climb a bit, it does provide some protection.

It'd be really interesting if we had the Albatros C.IV or the Rumpler C.IV as part of this conversation!

[Czech693]

I don't know about Lewis, but McCudden started out as an aircraft mechanic and he souped up his SE-5 to get more out of it.

[Flashy]

11 hours ago, Czech693 said:

I don't know about Lewis, but McCudden started out as an aircraft mechanic and he souped up his SE-5 to get more out of it.

Yes I was just about to post a correction to this post after reading that last night. Please ignore this thread, it seems I was mistaken. We have the default bog-standard factory S.E.5.a in the game whose ceiling was indeed about 17k ft. McCudden had done a number of engine modifications (including increasing the compression ratio I believe) to get better performance out of his machine. So, HE could sit at 20kft and wait for unsuspecting Rumplers, but most S.E.5's couldnt.. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Was on board oxygen a thing then for flying at those altitudes?

[Flashy]

10 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Was on board oxygen a thing then for flying at those altitudes?

not really no.. I think some of the German planes had an oxygen tank, but McCudden for example quite often speaks about spending 2 hours up at those sorts of heights and then having a bad headache "from the altitude" for the rest of the day! 😅

Edited December 10, 2025 by Flashy

[BlitzPig_EL]

Wow, they must have been made of stronger stuff back then!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wow!

[Flashy]

Altitude sickness apparently isnt much of a problem if you are only going up for a few hours at a time. Combat pilots in WW1 on all sides would routinely sit at 15-20k ft for patrols over the lines with the only real issue being the cold up there - especially during winter.. you can imagine how bitterly cold it must be at 20k ft in an open cockpit aircraft in the dead of winter 🥶

[BlitzPig_EL]

I have only flown in an open cockpit biplane one time.  A Stearman, in the middle of an Ohio summer, so it was quite comfortable.  I can't imagine how uncomfortable, verging on dangerous, it was in the depths of winter.

[Catch]

8 hours ago, Flashy said:

I think some of the German planes had an oxygen tank

Snowflakes.

All one needed was a stiff upper lip attached to a regulation RFC moustache to ward off the cold.

[Flashy]

10 hours ago, Catch said:

Snowflakes.

All one needed was a stiff upper lip attached to a regulation RFC moustache to ward off the cold.

Too right Catchy old chap - that and an endless supply of Tea! In the grim thunder of war, when the beastly Hun is lobbing unpleasantness in our general direction and morale is lower than a snake’s belly in a trench—there is but one thing that stands tall, proud, and steamy in the face of adversity: TEA!

Edited December 11, 2025 by Flashy

[BlitzPig_EL]

Tea is a bolster to morale, and a constant reminder that amid the chaos, there is still the ever glowing light of civilization.

Not bad for a Yank, eh wot!?

[Catch]

6 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Tea is a bolster to morale, and a constant reminder that amid the chaos, there is still the ever glowing light of civilization.

Not bad for a Yank, eh wot!?

 

If it wasn't for that jolly old tax on tea in Britain's American colony then you'd all be waxing lyrical like Blitzy and playing Cricket and Rugger and talking proper like gentlemen. You coulda been like Canada. 🙃 Paradise lost. 

But back on point. I wish we had McCudden's souped up Se5a in game. The bog standard one we have is not really my cup of tea I'm afraid. Engine variants anyone?

[Holtzauge]

if you want to learn more about how WW1 aircraft performed in terms of speed, climb, dive, dive and zoom and turn performance, I've written a book on the subject which you can find more information about on my homepage here:

https://militaryaircraftperformance.com/ww1-aircr-subpage-books/

In the  book you will see that Entente scouts like the S.E.5a and SPAD S.XIII etc. were not only fast and climbed well, but in addition had much better turn and energy retention performance than they are usually credited with.

In fact, while the Germans did have some good aircraft late in the war like the Fokker D.VIIF with the over-compressed BMW engine and the Siemens-Schuckert D.IV etc., many other  aircraft like the Mercedes powered Fokker D.VII, the Fokker Dr.I, Albatros D.Va and even the Fokker D.VIII were outclassed, and under closer scrutiny do not really live up to their reputations as often portrayed in other books.

[Catch]

Yes, I know I said I wouldn't mention it again. But that was on the old forum. 🙂 It still disappoints me that 1C has not even considered revising the FM of the 200hp Viper Se5a we have in-game. She's a dog sloth in turn, climb and acceleration with that weird energy loss thing. Good at diving, running away and reaching her maximum speed with a bit of coaxing. But that's about it. It's almost like we have the 150hp Se5 version, which by all reports, was a dog sloth. 

 

Edited December 14, 2025 by Catch

[Avimimus]

Having been outrun and out turned by a real dog I find your argument singularly uncompelling.

That said, I'm all for more engine variants and aircraft variants!

[Catch]

Lol you're right Avi. I shouldn't have used dog as a derogatory term. I love dogs. I guess I was having a senior moment. I apologise to all dogs for my slur. It was an unnecessary and inaccurate depiction of the Se5a's flying ability because dogs are quite nimble. I have edited my above post accordingly to an animal more suitable to the Se5a's performance. 🙂

[Lufberyjaa]

For what it's worth, when flying a Fokker D.VIIF at high altitude I can hear my pilot breathing oxygen. 

There's a good photo of German O2 equipment here: 

 

Also, I was reading an old issue of Over the Front magazine and an article that included a note from an American pilot mentioning possibly getting parachutes and oxygen. I'll see if I can dig out the specific references.

[Lufberyjaa]

A few posts up, Anders mentions both his book (which is excellent!) and over-compressed engines. I found this video helpful in understanding over-compression and why it mattered for German high altitude aircraft performance: 

 

Edited December 19, 2025 by Lufberyjaa