Feeling like a Dinosaur in a Zoo

[IckyAtlas]

I don't know you but this a little bit the feeling I have. Let me explain, and please do not take this too seriously. As usual these feelings go away with time. It is the transition that is always difficult.

In the old forum I have been for 13 years starting with Jason (IL2-GB Forum in short), and if we count the previous one of IL2 Sturmovik with Oleg last version (IL2 and COD forum), it's been 20 years or so. But the change from the COD forum to the IL2-GB forum after the COD completely botched launch (COD was a lot improved later on) seemed to me a kind of natural evolution simply because at that time the two forums where different and where active in parallel as these were two different developer groups.  Later COD joined in the IL2 forum that had various sub forums like GB, Tank Crew, Flying Circus etc.

This time is a little different because it is a continuity. We do not jump from one dev group to another one. The new future game is Korea which is not here yet. Were the technical reasons invoked so compelling to force this change? I am not an expert in multiplayer and server issues, cheating etc. but I am not totally convinced. This is my nature. Never take things at face value first hand. Any way that is not important. What is done is done. But what do I see.

A brand new forum with no past history. There is a GB sub forum that is maintained, but Tank Crew, Flying Circus, COD etc. have disappeared. I do not know how good or active these forums were. And maybe they will be reinstated too later on. It is a good way also to clean the thousands of members who are not active since a very long time. Those who re-register in the new forum are the die hard ones. But those who re-register with a long and faithful history are also considered brand new, and that is the negative part of it. 

This brings to my feeling of being a kind of Dinosaur which is now parked in the new GB forum until Korea takes over. Why a zoo, because the GB chapter is empty, its richness is gone, and it is bland like are the enclosures where big animals are fenced in Zoos. They are fed and taken care as we are with new updates, maps, planes etc. (believe me I love that). For how long only the future will tell.

In any case what I do now is to keep a separate local copy of the games latest updates just in case. 😉

 

 

[Aapje]

1 hour ago, IckyAtlas said:

Were the technical reasons invoked so compelling to force this change? I am not an expert in multiplayer and server issues, cheating etc. but I am not totally convinced. 

The middleware they use for GB has been discontinued since 2017: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaleform_GFx

So it is not getting new features and thus not keeping up with modern demands (like support for a lot of controllers).

Also, it is based on Flash, which was discontinued in 2020. That means that finding developers who can and are willing to work on it, will be getting harder and harder. Developers tend to not like working with obsolete technology because it is not good for your CV and often not fun.

Also, moving to an incompatible engine allows other modernization that is not compatible with the old content, or was hard to do, like PBR for better graphics, DirectX 12 which allows for modern graphics features like FSR, better AI, native OpenXR support, etc.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

10 minutes ago, Aapje said:

The middleware they use for GB has been discontinued since 2017: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaleform_GFx

So it is not getting new features and thus not keeping up with modern demands (like support for a lot of controllers).

Also, it is based on Flash, which was discontinued in 2020. That means that finding developers who can and are willing to work on it, will be getting harder and harder. Developers tend to not like working with obsolete technology because it is not good for your CV and often not fun.

Also, moving to an incompatible engine allows other modernization that is not compatible with the old content, or was hard to do, like PBR for better graphics, DirectX 12 which allows for modern graphics features like FSR, better AI, native OpenXR support, etc.

I think Icky is talking about the change in forums rather than the game engine 🙂

Per the Devs' own statement, there was a need to disconnect users' forum and game accounts because of security reasons. If everyone's going to have to create new accounts anyhow, then why not immediately upgrade the forum as well?

[AndreiTomescu]

53 minutes ago, IckyAtlas said:

feeling of being a kind of Dinosaur which is now parked in the new GB forum until Korea takes over

I feel the same. guess that is how things work in a world driven by evolution. The forum changing move was like the meteorite that struck the Earth 😉 

However, just like the old Il-2, with its rich world, 100+ planes, and every imaginable theatre of ww2 available is still accessible, I do hope that this rich, sweat and passion filled world of GB will remain available.

There is the risk of GB dinosaur world to be killed intentionally in order to force the blossoming of the Korea and its successors 🙂 .

It would be a shame, and also would indicate the need to force the core of il-2 constant users towards the new game, instead of a natural migration induced by the natural evolution.

So maybe won't happen. (The intentional killing of GB).

Also, IMHO, the blanck slate, the reset between old and new users, is intentional and psychologically smart: there is a NEW game to come, so EVERYONE is new...... 

The old ones, the dinosaurs (and i am a relatively new dinosaur! ), we remained in the old world. The red one. Preserved. Frozen as long as the server is up.

The future is blue, changed (or not) and promising. I truly hope it will live to surpass its predecessors, 1946 and GB, since those were and ARE milestones in aviation simulation, historic reenactment and a tribute to those who shaped the future: our present. 

[Avimimus]

41 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I think Icky is talking about the change in forums rather than the game engine 🙂

Per the Devs' own statement, there was a need to disconnect users' forum and game accounts because of security reasons. If everyone's going to have to create new accounts anyhow, then why not immediately upgrade the forum as well?

Yes, having the forum badges and the store account linked to the forum accounts was shown to have a vulnerability... so they had to separate them.

There is no intention of killing Great Battles. There is even some new content coming for it (not just Odessa and Leningrad, not just the Zeppelin, but also something unannounced). Development of the Great Battles engine has slowed down, with new sims planned to be developed in the Korea engine with a higher degree of detail that wasn't possible in the old engine. However, Great Battles will continue to be supported, continue to be offered for sale, and continue to provide an enormous amount of content and gameplay (as it currently does). None of this will change.

...as for dinosaurs, well, a lot of them survive today in the form of birds 😉 So I don't think there is anything to worry about.

[Trooper117]

I'd certainly say that separating the user store accounts from the forum account was needed if a vulnerability was found.

[AndreiTomescu]

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

...as for dinosaurs, well, a lot of them survive today in the form of birds

True, and sharp point. We'll have to adapt.

What does this vulnerability means? How can a forum account affect game account, and viceversa? 

I don't understand.

[Sadko]

Зачем нам форум ино-марашный? это прямой сарказм от меня.

Смысл в этом во всём, ВЫ уважаемые разработчики если уж продались полностью, то извольте это без нас.

Edited November 29, 2025 by Sadko

[BlitzPig_EL]

[Avimimus]

11 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

True, and sharp point. We'll have to adapt.

What does this vulnerability means? How can a forum account affect game account, and viceversa? 

I don't understand.

They were the same account. You log in to the forums with the same password used in the store. If you have a product you get a forum badge etc. Simple to use, but it means using the same databases (or at least connected databases) between the forum software and the store software...

[Avimimus]

 

25 minutes ago, Sadko said:

Зачем нам форум ино-марашный? это прямой сарказм от меня.

Смысл в этом во всём, ВЫ уважаемые разработчики если уж продались полностью, то извольте это без нас.

Maybe because the rest of the world exists? 196 other countries? (assuming I understood you correctly)

[AndreiTomescu]

21 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

They were the same account. You log in to the forums with the same password used in the store. If you have a product you get a forum badge etc. Simple to use, but it means using the same databases (or at least connected databases) between the forum software and the store software...

right, that i understood. but is that dangerous? is one platform/site more vulnerable and the risk is carried out to the other one? 

i mean, the old forum went like this for 12 yrs. the new and flashy Korea comes out and this is suddenly a problem. i won't die not knowing, but because curiosity killed the cat 🙂 ... but i'm curious.

[BraveSirRobin]

21 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

right, that i understood. but is that dangerous? is one platform/site more vulnerable and the risk is carried out to the other one? 

i mean, the old forum went like this for 12 yrs. the new and flashy Korea comes out and this is suddenly a problem. i won't die not knowing, but because curiosity killed the cat 🙂 ... but i'm curious.

It seems unlikely that they’re going to post a detailed description of the weaknesses in their data security.

[Avimimus]

It isn't my department... but risk assessment includes considering both the likelihood of something happening, and the severity of the consequences. I assume they had good reason. They might be being overly cautious, but then, some of the team members are also actual pilots - and one thing I've learned from aviation, is that paranoia, checking everything carefully, and having an alternative plan, are always the way to go.

I'd just take this as a sign that they are trying to take care of our data - even if the risks are small, they don't want to take them. At least that is the message I took away.

[Aapje]

3 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

right, that i understood. but is that dangerous? is one platform/site more vulnerable and the risk is carried out to the other one?

It was double the risk, since a hacker could get to the financial customer info by either hacking the forum or the site. Now half of that risk is gone.

[MaxPower]

3 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

right, that i understood. but is that dangerous?

My guess (with no special info) is that accounts with financial info require high security, and forum accounts do not.  It might be that the forum software developer didn't have high security in mind and therefore is a weak point for customer account security.  Or maybe I'll full of horse feathers?  At any rate, the forum software was showing a record of monetary transactions with the badges.  Depending on how the badges were linked to the product ownership authentication or purchase records, I can imagine a scenario where the forum security for customer log ins and activity is not enough.... Baring in mind I don't have any special knowledge or experience with network security or back end infrastructure.  I'm only aware of them as a concept.

[IckyAtlas]

34 minutes ago, MaxPower said:

At any rate, the forum software was showing a record of monetary transactions with the badges.  Depending on how the badges were linked to the product ownership authentication or purchase records, I can imagine a scenario where the forum security for customer log ins and activity is not enough....

Maybe you have a point here that I did not see before. You get badges when you buy a product. To buy it you have to make a transaction on the website. Now if website and forum are connected then it opens the door to hacking financial or transaction data. Not knowing what data is really stored on the IL2 servers and what stays with the entity that does the financial transaction with the credit cards PayPal or whatever, it is difficult to assess how dangerous all this is but clearly there is a weakness here that bright little minds could exploit.

[IckyAtlas]

By the way wandering in the Zoo I did not see a famous Dinosaur named Gambit21. Hope he made it through the Il2 multi-dimension portal, or maybe got trapped forever in the old one. 😉

Edited November 29, 2025 by IckyAtlas

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, MaxPower said:

 Or maybe I'll full of horse feathers? 

Well this is a great expression I've never heard before!

[MaxPower]

38 minutes ago, IckyAtlas said:

Maybe you have a point here that I did not see before. You get badges when you buy a product. To buy it you have to make a transaction on the website. Now if website and forum are connected then it opens the door to hacking financial or transaction data. Not knowing what data is really stored on the IL2 servers and what stays with the entity that does the financial transaction with the credit cards PayPal or whatever, it is difficult to assess how dangerous all this is but clearly there is a weakness here that bright little minds could exploit.

Yeah they mentioned that the accounts were the same and that the badges on your forum account are related directly to your customer account status.  So, there's a through-line from the forum identity to the rest of the info that's stored.  Of course, how that's actually implemented, I have no idea and I don't know if that is specifically the concern.  Maybe if they can log in as you on the forums, they can log in as you on the website.  Or if they can get your info out of the forum account database, and that info is more than what's necessary for strictly the forum or some other shady stuff.

[AndreiTomescu]

12 hours ago, IckyAtlas said:

Hope he made it through the Il2 multi-dimension portal, or maybe got trapped forever in the old one

There are some good old dinosaurs that we'll still waiting for.....

I really hope they'll make it through! 

🤗

[kama1]

me too, me too.

Il-2 veteran since may 2002.

 

 

[Jaegermeister]

On 11/29/2025 at 3:12 PM, IckyAtlas said:

By the way wandering in the Zoo I did not see a famous Dinosaur named Gambit21. Hope he made it through the Il2 multi-dimension portal, or maybe got trapped forever in the old one. 😉

He is not very active on this forum due to other responsibilities, but he is still around. He won't be able to resist the temptation to fly the MiG 15 when it is released, and then talk about it here, LOL.

[AlexandreCosta]

I've been playing IL-2 since 2005. I have all content of every IL-2 that was released. My favourite game/sim of all times.

[Flashy]

I am quite annoyed that they didnt move all the old content across to this new forum. The most important thing about the old forum was all the content in the mission editing threads, as well as the custom made missions over the years - there is a ton of knowledge from a lot of very smart people there. I am not sure if there is a way around not being able to download those files on the old forum anymore (think I saw something about that), but they should have just moved all the existing content over to the new forum to prevent this issue.