Dev Blog #67: Nature

[Juri_JS]

6 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Although it isn't disputed that the Japanese occupation left the Korean peninsula forests in a severely degraded state, I've yet to see any trustworthy maps on the issue. Available statistics usually have rather specific wordings and concern widely different metrics, leading to such divergent numbers as "around 0.68 million ha, or 10% of South Korean forests, destroyed and in need of restoration" [1], "the average volume per ha in Korea dropped to 14 cubic metres from 45 cubic metres in 1910" [2] or "approximately 30% of the forested land was either denuded or had a low density of stocking" [3]. What all sources do agree on though, is that North Korea was generally less affected, and that happens to be 3/4 of our map.

Still, whether 10%, 30% or 70%, it's clear that there were plenty of deforested areas and I would like to see that reflected, where appropriate.

These maps are from the late 1950s:

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

8 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

These maps are from the late 1950s:

The library of the University of Texas indicates they're from 1972:

https://maps.lib.utexas.edu/maps/korea.html

[Juri_JS]

10 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

The library of the University of Texas indicates they're from 1972:

https://maps.lib.utexas.edu/maps/korea.html

Then I was wrong, I thought I read somewhere that the data was from the late 1950s. I guess that means that the area shown as scrub, bush and barren land was even greater in the early 1950s. Nonetheless I think the maps give a good overview where deforested areas were most common. 

Edited April 4 by Juri_JS

[86Cheese]

All this talk of Rice patties and layered tree canopies got me thinking 1C might have a super secret Vietnam card up their sleeve. 🤔🤑 

Can you imagine? Flying Hueys or SkyRaiders, or a Cobra into Ia Drang and it looks like that. Gun runs on dudes pulling donkey carts full of ordnance up the Ho Chi Minh trail. All the tech 1C is building right now would build a better Vietnam sim than anyone else could do without another decade of work. 

 

God, ground attack is going to be on a whole other level in Korea. I cannot freaking wait.

[Aapje]

@86Cheese 

There is probably more overlap between what they are doing for Korea and the Pacific, because those wars used the some of the same carriers and planes.

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

@86Cheese 

There is probably more overlap between what they are doing for Korea and the Pacific, because those wars used the some of the same carriers and planes.

Makes a lot of sense. Maybe we will see some Okinawa or Philipines action first. Battle of Leyte Gulf?

Edited April 4 by sevenless

[AEthelraedUnraed]

50 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

I guess that means that the area shown as scrub, bush and barren land was even greater in the early 1950s. Nonetheless I think the maps give a good overview where deforested areas were most common. 

Quite possibly, yes, although reforestation seems to have only properly gotten underway in the 1970s.

In this map too, there is the issue of metrics and terminology. Wat exactly is the boundary between shrubland and forest? What does the "Forest" area denote in the first place? There are towns and fields within it, so obviously not "100% forest coverage". Similarly, the other colours almost certainly don't mean there are no forests at all within those areas, let alone no trees. The map gives a good overview indeed, but it's not nearly detailed or specific enough to draw any definite conclusions.

There were certainly lots of deforested areas in 1950s Korea, and some of those are well documented. But I think the data is inconclusive enough that for many of the remote inland areas, the lush green mountains as presented by the Devs are a very plausible representation.

I would certainly love to hear the Devs' thoughts on this. I suppose they must have some idea of the actual land use during the war; probably better than any of us. Will deforestation be realistically represented in the game? If not, is this an artistic choice or for technical reasons?

[Mustang_Mike]

One of the first Dev blogs I've seen from you guys thats actually made me stop and think "wow this actually looks next gen." At least from the screenshots we see here, pretty close to par with the flora and autogen terrain we can see in other sims. 

Still far from convincing me its worth $180, and still one of the less important aspects of a FLIGHT sim, but hey, credit where its due. 

[Juri_JS]

5 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

In this map too, there is the issue of metrics and terminology. Wat exactly is the boundary between shrubland and forest? What does the "Forest" area denote in the first place? There are towns and fields within it, so obviously not "100% forest coverage". Similarly, the other colours almost certainly don't mean there are no forests at all within those areas, let alone no trees. The map gives a good overview indeed, but it's not nearly detailed or specific enough to draw any definite conclusions.

Thinking back to my geography courses at university, I would suggest, to simply use the idealized models from geography, when no detailed data can be found. Around settlement areas you usually have different land-use zones. First an agricultural area with fields, followed by over-used deforested shrubland caused both by grazing and wood cutting. The next zone would be coppice wood, where the people get their firewood, it would be a more open woodland where younger and lower trees dominate. The outside zone would be untouched forest, like the one shown by the devs.

You could use such a model to automatically populate a map with trees. And you could build-in all kinds of variations, for example depending on settlement sizes or topography of surrounding areas.

Edited April 5 by Juri_JS

[Dash,Polder]

Geez guys, your over thinking it, barely anyone alive who even saw it back than, let alone all at once from the air.

Who knows, who cares, who can actually tell in game?  

Is it convincing to a gamer, beyond that it don't matter.  Not even worth expending the energy.

[Leifr]

20 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

-snip-

Fair enough, decent response. 🫡

10 minutes ago, Dash,Polder said:

Geez guys, your over thinking it, barely anyone alive who even saw it back than, let alone all at once from the air.

Who knows, who cares, who can actually tell in game?  

Is it convincing to a gamer, beyond that it don't matter.  Not even worth expending the energy.

Were you around for the release of the Rheinland map? 🤐😅

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, Dash,Polder said:

Geez guys, your over thinking it, barely anyone alive who even saw it back than, let alone all at once from the air.

Who knows, who cares, who can actually tell in game?  

Is it convincing to a gamer, beyond that it don't matter.  Not even worth expending the energy.

It's perfectly fine for people to share differing opinions or concerns. No need to shout them down or tell them no one cares.

[KC23]

Looks great, I can't wait to fly this sim.

[CzechTexan]

On 4/5/2026 at 1:44 AM, Dash,Polder said:

Geez guys, your over thinking it, barely anyone alive who even saw it back than, let alone all at once from the air.

Who knows, who cares, who can actually tell in game?  

Is it convincing to a gamer, beyond that it don't matter.  Not even worth expending the energy.

I started this conversation so you can blame it all on me.  I care because if I'm going to build ground attack missions there needs to be some open space to place ground targets.  If the area is all covered with trees then you won't be able to see anything - enemy and/or friendly.  You cannot shoot through trees either, for example, artillery must have open space to fire.  I'm just asking for the major battlefields (or even minor ones) to be more open.

I'm sure the devs will figure it all out and it will be fine.  

[Dash,Polder]

That's a most reasonable concern and question about the map.  Hope the trees behave more like trees this time around so it really won't matter.  Where the cannon's and machine guns can penetrate better and there's no protective force field effects to the degree where even the bombs can deflect energy or bounce off.  Be nice to have the trees get chewed up and whittled away as ordinance is applied until the positions are fully exposed.

Just have to wait and see what magic this round brings to the table.  Great Battles certainly raised the bar several notches on the ground attack side of the house, logical to expect more of the same.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

16 hours ago, Dash,Polder said:

Be nice to have the trees get chewed up and whittled away as ordinance is applied until the positions are fully exposed.

Especially this. Right now, it's kind of immersion breaking to see whole cities in ruins, and green trees between the buildings.