Planes dart in and out of screen.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

The throttle of the Thrustmaster T.16000M set is quite good with the quantity of buttons and the ergonomics. There is just one thing the throttle is poor at, which is throttling... I had one and tried modding it, but I could never get it to slide without severe stiction issues (that is when you can't make subtle movements, because the throttle is sticky, but when it does go, it goes fast). This is very inconvenient in IL-2, where there are thresholds between engine modes, and you want to get maximum performance for a certain engine mode.

The joystick is not very good.

You're right about the friction issue; same goes for the rudder by the way. But nothing some grease won't fix 🙂

I am curious though why you think the joystick isn't very good. It captures even my tiniest movements, has plenty of buttons, has good ergonomics and is convenient to setup. I haven't had any major complaints for the 6 years I've been using it, and I consider it a major step up from my previous Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (which I still use occasionally).

Also, it's less than half the price of the VKB Gladiator Space Combat Edition. I'd never recommend any new player to spend €161 on a joystick, when a much cheaper joystick gets the job done just fine and the gods may know if this new hobby will even stick.

[daiphan]

13 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

You're right about the friction issue; same goes for the rudder by the way. But nothing some grease won't fix 🙂

I am curious though why you think the joystick isn't very good. It captures even my tiniest movements, has plenty of buttons, has good ergonomics and is convenient to setup. I haven't had any major complaints for the 6 years I've been using it, and I consider it a major step up from my previous Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (which I still use occasionally).

Also, it's less than half the price of the VKB Gladiator Space Combat Edition. I'd never recommend any new player to spend €161 on a joystick, when a much cheaper joystick gets the job done just fine and the gods may know if this new hobby will even stick.

So you would recommend the Thrustmaster T16000M as a beginner set up? I just want to be able to get behind a plane and shoot it down. Rather than using auto pilot and watch the show. With that being said I wonder if I should get back into sims or just give up (return the new rig) as I have not been able to fly properly at all. Dai 

Edited March 26 by daiphan

[Catch]

38 minutes ago, daiphan said:

I just want to be able to get behind a plane and shoot it down

Are you playing online with bad ping and/or connection? Planes acting like UFO's? Other than that, anybody with even the most rudimentary gear can get behind a plane and shoot at it. Hitting it is another matter of course limited to only those with expert reflexes, superb hand/eye coordination and extraordinary abilities like myself for example. OR your Desktop/Laptop is so crap it just can't cut it unless someone like me was using it and able to over-ride its limitations. If I was younger, I'd frighten even myself.

[daiphan]

4 hours ago, Catch said:

Are you playing online with bad ping and/or connection? Planes acting like UFO's? Other than that, anybody with even the most rudimentary gear can get behind a plane and shoot at it. Hitting it is another matter of course limited to only those with expert reflexes, superb hand/eye coordination and extraordinary abilities like myself for example. OR your Desktop/Laptop is so crap it just can't cut it unless someone like me was using it and able to over-ride its limitations. If I was younger, I'd frighten even myself.

I do not play online as of yet. As of now planes just dart in and of the gunsight. I simply could not follow anyone as the turn is so slow and the enemy planes fly like UFOs! Dai

[AndreiTomescu]

6 hours ago, daiphan said:

I should get back into sims or just give up (return the new rig) as I have not been able to fly properly at all

Does the "UFO" issue continues to manifest with the new rig, that has proper GPU (a powerful 5070, if i remember, right?)

[AndreiTomescu]

I'm thinking a video card/display issue. @Aapje, you're the expert, pls, help..... it would be a shame for this guy, that really put effort and big money in getting back in the cockpit, to give up. Many thanks.

I've seen this issue when microstutter is huge, and fps drops towards zero.

But this also could be cpu-related, right?

[daiphan]

7 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

Does the "UFO" issue continues to manifest with the new rig, that has proper GPU (a powerful 5070, if i remember, right?)

The new rig will be delivered today. So far I could only enjoy through auto pilot which is a shame. I really want to jump into action and do some real flying shooting down planes. I have tried everything that was suggested. I really should buy a new joystick and see if I can get into the action as it is now I am merely a spectator! Dai 

11 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

Does the "UFO" issue continues to manifest with the new rig, that has proper GPU (a powerful 5070, if i remember, right?)

I post some concerns in the hardware section. Please chime in, Dai 

[daiphan]

9 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

I'm thinking a video card/display issue. @Aapje, you're the expert, pls, help..... it would be a shame for this guy, that really put effort and big money in getting back in the cockpit, to give up. Many thanks.

I've seen this issue when microstutter is huge, and fps drops towards zero.

But this also could be cpu-related, right?

I play at 1280X720 and the action is smooth. I do not think it is the FPS issue, Dai 

[AndreiTomescu]

Ok, so my uneducated guess is that lacking GPU makes the game unplayable. I will stop my gpu, switch to Ryzen dedicated graphics and see if I can replicate your issue. But I really think that yes. 

 

[daiphan]

1 minute ago, AndreiTomescu said:

Ok, so my uneducated guess is that lacking GPU makes the game unplayable. I will stop my gpu, switch to Ryzen dedicated graphics and see if I can replicate your issue. But I really think that yes. 

 

Anxious to see your result. Dai

[AndreiTomescu]

19 minutes ago, daiphan said:

post some concerns in the hardware section. Please chime in

There is saw Aapje answered. This guy really knows his stuff. I would be like fifth weel for a carriage! 🙂 

If I were you i would go for the new rig and take it from there. Or a gpu on the old one? But you have to have enough power from the source, this gpu s eat alot of watts.

On my older, ryzen 7 5700g, 32 ram, Rx6600xt 8 gb vram computer the great battles sim runs very smooth, at 90 fps on 1440p display.

This ufo issue i had when I tried to run the CloD on a poor laptop with no gpu.

Don't give up just yet.

You could also submit a ticket to the devs.

But let's wait for the others to help. Most of the guys here are willing to help, and some really know what they are saying.

P.S. the longest time I've spent on a single game title was KCD 1, with 600+ hrs , DLCs included. On the GB sim I have about 3k hrs. So the sim is really entertaining, imho

Edited March 27 by AndreiTomescu
spelling

[daiphan]

2 minutes ago, AndreiTomescu said:

There is saw Aapje answered. This guy really knows his stuff. I would be like fifth weel for a carriage! 🙂 

If I were you i would go for the new rig and take it from there. Or a gpu on the old one? But you have to have enough power from the source, this gpu s eat alot of watts.

On my older, ryzen 7 5700g, 32 ram, Rx6600xt computer the great battles sim runs very smooth, at 90 fps on 1440p display.

This ufo issue i had when I tried to run the CloD on a poor laptop with no gpu.

Don't give up just yet.

You could also submit a ticket to the devs.

But let's wait for the others to help. Most of the guys here are willing to help,cand some really know what they are saying.

P.S. the longest time I've spent on a single game title was KCD 1, with 600+ hrs , DLCs included. On the GB sim I have about 3k hrs. So the sim is really entertaining, imho

I will get a new joystick and set up the new rig to see what happens. I am sure it has to be better than this. Dai 

PS: please go see my new rig in the hardware section to see if it is good for IL 2? 

 

[AndreiTomescu]

Saw it. It's perfect. Overkill, by large. It's Korea material. Like you could run Korea very good.

With that machine, hardware CANNOT be an issue.

[MDzmitry]

I'll reinforce the opinions stated above regarding joysticks: the best investments would be a VKB GNE (Gladiator NXT Evo) or a new Virpil Aerocadet. 

I personally went with the former: VKB GNE base + KG 12 grip, it cost me around 200 dollars including shipping (from China to Belarus) and taxes. The Virpil Aerocadet at that time was still in its preorder stage, and I didn't want to wait. Having done the research, people describe VKB's plastic as a high-quality reinforced type akin to the one used in architecture. I personally have put a couple of hundred hours into it, having also mounted my joystick on a self-made platform/holder. No issues whatsoever, and all the receptors are magnetic, meaning they are unlikely to wear out in the future as well.

Virpil meanwhile has metal gimbal, which will likely last even longer, but at this point we're talking about a difference between "really long time" (VKB) and "stupidly long time" (Virpil). 

Both companies also have great customer service, so if anything breaks for some unimaginable reason, you could easily contact them and deal with your issues.

Edited March 27 by MDzmitry

[AEthelraedUnraed]

9 hours ago, daiphan said:

So you would recommend the Thrustmaster T16000M as a beginner set up? I just want to be able to get behind a plane and shoot it down. Rather than using auto pilot and watch the show. With that being said I wonder if I should get back into sims or just give up (return the new rig) as I have not been able to fly properly at all. Dai 

What I'm saying is that the T.16000M is a reasonable joystick for a good price (around €65). It's definitely good enough to keep you happy as a beginner. Especially if you're not sure yet of if you'll stick to flight simming, I wouldn't recommend buying something more expensive. But of course this also depends on your own financial situation. If you're well off, you might want to go for Aapje's suggestions instead.

2 hours ago, daiphan said:

I have tried everything that was suggested.

Could you post back the results? What do the curve settings in IL2 show? What do the Windows calibration tools show? This is extremely important to diagnose the issue, and as said it might not even be a joystick issue at all.

Edited March 27 by AEthelraedUnraed

[Aapje]

11 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

You're right about the friction issue; same goes for the rudder by the way. But nothing some grease won't fix 🙂

Yes, and Nyogel 767a is the best grease for it, since it is a damping grease, so you get a constant movement. I never got it to work that well, but that could be due to having a 2nd hand TWCS or because of my unit being poor.

11 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I am curious though why you think the joystick isn't very good. It captures even my tiniest movements, has plenty of buttons, has good ergonomics and is convenient to setup.

I have had only the throttle portion, but there are a lot of people with bad experiences, like:

• Drift issues, which can be causes by excessive hot glue inside the stick or other issues
• Having the twist sensor stop working, since it is open to debris, causing people to have to clean it to make it work again
• Having excessive wear on the twist potentiometer due to the design which puts asymmetric load on the potentiometer. Some people have modified their stick to combat this.
• Potentiometers in general wear out and are sensitive to dirt, while hall effect sensors that use magnetic forces to not make physical contact and thus do not suffer from these things. The stick does have hall effect sensors for the x and y movement, but they saved a few cents on the twist action.
• Button quality is apparently very poor as well.

Production consistency/quality control seems to not be great, so you can get lucky with a stick that happens to be good, but also bad luck.

And most of the buttons are on the base, with very few buttons on the stick itself. I don't see how that isn't a big ergonomics issue and one that makes it pretty important to also have the throttle, so you have more buttons in easily accessible places.

But...

11 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Also, it's less than half the price of the VKB Gladiator Space Combat Edition.

It's not half if you also get the throttle, which is much more necessary if you get the T16000M than if you get the Gladiator.

Also, because the VKB is much more reliable and maintainable, there is a pretty good chance that you'll be able to sell it for a decent amount of money if you quit the hobby, so the actual cost of ownership would be less.

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

This may seem a silly question daiphan, but is your cockpit view zoomed all the way in by any chance?Or are you in the standard zoomed out view?  If you were zoomed fully in all the time it would give the impression that enemy aircraft are moving out of your field of view very quickly.

[daiphan]

4 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

What I'm saying is that the T.16000M is a reasonable joystick for a good price (around €65). It's definitely good enough to keep you happy as a beginner. Especially if you're not sure yet of if you'll stick to flight simming, I wouldn't recommend buying something more expensive. But of course this also depends on your own financial situation. If you're well off, you might want to go for Aapje's suggestions instead.

Could you post back the results? What do the curve settings in IL2 show? What do the Windows calibration tools show? This is extremely important to diagnose the issue, and as said it might not even be a joystick issue at all.

I calibrated in the IL2. The needle moves to extreme left and right per stick movement but at center, the needle in IL2 is NOT. I changed the curve to the S and it is a little bit better but still cannot get behind the planes. Dai 

[daiphan]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

This may seem a silly question daiphan, but is your cockpit view zoomed all the way in by any chance?Or are you in the standard zoomed out view?  If you were zoomed fully in all the time it would give the impression that enemy aircraft are moving out of your field of view very quickly.

This is the view without zooming. What you think? Dai 

Edited March 27 by daiphan

[BlitzPig_EL]

That's normal, definitely sounding like a controller issue.  Out of curiosity, what are you flying, and what are you flying against?

[daiphan]

5 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

That's normal, definitely sounding like a controller issue.  Out of curiosity, what are you flying, and what are you flying against?

I just pick random mission. All I want is to get into dogfight but yet to follow a plane leave alone shooting down. Dai 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

4 hours ago, daiphan said:

I calibrated in the IL2. The needle moves to extreme left and right per stick movement but at center, the needle in IL2 is NOT. I changed the curve to the S and it is a little bit better but still cannot get behind the planes. Dai 

If they move to the extreme left and right, I do not think the main issue is with your joystick. You should be able to roll just fine, even if your centre position is a bit off.

There is still a slight controller issue though. Try to calibrate it using the Windows settings; if that doesn't work, buy a new one. But again, I don't think your particular joystick issue should cause the behaviour you describe.

 

Let me get this straight because your terminology is a bit ambiguous. You're talking about rolling, not turning, right?

[LukeFF]

18 hours ago, AndreiTomescu said:

huh! this in new! awesome! wasn't on the market when i got my stick and base. seems like a great choice, since it's 200 excluding vat, and a stick plus base goes at about 350 excluding vat. and it has Z-axis for the stick included! that if you don't get rudders. on my setup that had to be added separately.  it's much less expensive and has the same all-metal base as the WarBRD base. wonder why? competition, maybe?

I just had this very grip delivered to my house this week. I'm using it with the MongoosT-50CM3 Base and 200 mm extension. It's an excellent all-round choice.

It was initially only marketed as an all-in-one option that couldn't be removed from the base, but according to Virpil the demand was strong enough that they decided to make the grip standalone.

[daiphan]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

If they move to the extreme left and right, I do not think the main issue is with your joystick. You should be able to roll just fine, even if your centre position is a bit off.

There is still a slight controller issue though. Try to calibrate it using the Windows settings; if that doesn't work, buy a new one. But again, I don't think your particular joystick issue should cause the behaviour you describe.

 

Let me get this straight because your terminology is a bit ambiguous. You're talking about rolling, not turning, right?

I am talking about turning left or right (full left and full right stick). To get behind enemy planes. Dai 

10 hours ago, MDzmitry said:

I'll reinforce the opinions stated above regarding joysticks: the best investments would be a VKB GNE (Gladiator NXT Evo) or a new Virpil Aerocadet. 

I personally went with the former: VKB GNE base + KG 12 grip, it cost me around 200 dollars including shipping (from China to Belarus) and taxes. The Virpil Aerocadet at that time was still in its preorder stage, and I didn't want to wait. Having done the research, people describe VKB's plastic as a high-quality reinforced type akin to the one used in architecture. I personally have put a couple of hundred hours into it, having also mounted my joystick on a self-made platform/holder. No issues whatsoever, and all the receptors are magnetic, meaning they are unlikely to wear out in the future as well.

Virpil meanwhile has metal gimbal, which will likely last even longer, but at this point we're talking about a difference between "really long time" (VKB) and "stupidly long time" (Virpil). 

Both companies also have great customer service, so if anything breaks for some unimaginable reason, you could easily contact them and deal with your issues.

If I decide to stick with this hobby, no doubt I will get the Virpil as the quality is obvious. Way a step up from Thrustmaster. Dai  

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 minute ago, daiphan said:

I am talking about turning left or right (full left and full right stick). To get behind enemy planes. Dai 

"Turning" is very ambiguous. Since you're talking about moving your joystick left and right, I assume you mean rolling. Is this assumption correct?

What technique do you use to turn? Please describe everything you do with the joystick, in order. I have a suspicion you may be doing something wrong.