SIX! New planes for IL2-GB announced!

[I/JG53_Kurtz]

Good to see flyable bombers and FW-189 (confirmed?), also good the introduction of P-39Q, it was an important plane of Soviet side during late Eastern front campaigns, But I really don't understand the presence of P-47M... Built in very poor numbers (around 100) and by far less used compared to others US fighters, it would be better a P-38L as late american fighter or anything else.

I also hope that the development of these aircraft will not postpone or interrupt the introduction of Finnish fighters which are what is really needed, also to pay homage to the development of the Leningrad map.

[faint]

Many red, useful, and good planes are scheduled to be released over the next year, but the blue team will only get one useless plane? Is this a joke?

[Rjel]

9 minutes ago, I/JG53_Kurtz said:

Good to see flyable bombers and FW-189 (confirmed?), also good the introduction of P-39Q, it was an important plane of Soviet side during late Eastern front campaigns, But I really don't understand the presence of P-47M... Built in very poor numbers (around 100) and by far less used compared to others US fighters, it would be better a P-38L as late american fighter or anything else.

I also hope that the development of these aircraft will not postpone or interrupt the introduction of Finnish fighters which are what is really needed, also to pay homage to the development of the Leningrad map.

The M was produced in far larger numbers than was the Ta-152 so that kinda makes the argument invalid that it shouldn’t be included because it was a small production run. Both the British and German fliers have late war fighters that started to outclass the Mustang. I’m really quite excited for the P-47M. At 470  mph, it should be on equal footing with nearly any plane in the GB series. I do hope though that the P-47s engine has finally been made more durable. 

[Czech693]

My two cents, again.

Fw-189?  A recon plane?  Are you going to fly around and report enemy ground formations?  To whom?  Becomes a target plane.

Still no Hs-123, a workhorse ground attack plane for most of the war.  Fits into all the eastern front maps.  I'll pay for an Hs-123, but not a Fw-189.

Are we going to get a Brewster F2A Buffalo for the Finnish front?

MiG flaps still botched up, which could be fixed with a bandaid by reverting back to the original control setup, although setting up two controls should be feasible from an available control standpoint now that we're not doing drop tanks and fuel selectors.

Flyable American medium bombers, Great!  American fighters models upgraded with engine upgrades, Great!

[Aapje]

6 minutes ago, Czech693 said:

Fw-189?  A recon plane?  Are you going to fly around and report enemy ground formations?  To whom?  Becomes a target plane.

It has 2 forward firing machine guns and a one or two rear firing machine guns. It can also carry four 50 kg bombs.

[Juri_JS]

I'm curious if the role of the Fw-189 can be accurately portrayed in the game. Besides taking aerial photos and doing artillery spotting, the aircraft also flew missions with direct contact to troops on the ground, either via radio or dropped messages, to report enemy positions or direct the advance of troops. Would be nice if the player could actually influence the actions of ground units.

[I/JG53_Kurtz]

1 minute ago, Rjel said:

The M was produced in far larger numbers than was the Ta-152 so that kinda makes the argument invalid that it shouldn’t be included because it was a small production run. Both the British and German fliers have late war fighters that started to outclass the Mustang. I’m really quite excited for the P-47M. At 470  mph, it should be on equal footing with nearly any plane in the GB series. I do hope though that the P-47s engine has finally been made more durable. 

In fact, I didn't even appreciate the release of the Ta-152, even though I'm a fan of German aircraft, it's the only aircraft I haven't bought yet.

[Czech693]

And was it used for ground attack?  Rear guns are defensive unless you spray them after you pass the target.

How about a Russian medium bomber?  They had more than the Pe-2 and A-20.

[Juri_JS]

9 minutes ago, Czech693 said:

And was it used for ground attack?  

Yes it was. On recon missions Fw-189 usually carried bombs to attack targets of opportunity. Real bomber missions were also not uncommon, usually against artillery batteries or troop concentrations. During the fighting near Kerch in 1942, Fw-189 recon units even flew attacks against ships. A small number of Fw-189 were also used by night harassment and night fighter units.

Edited March 4 by Juri_JS

[Aapje]

6 minutes ago, faint said:

so whats that mean ? Is that a fighter ? or bomber ? or jagdbomber ? or groundattacker ? No, thats useless plane. U can use ANY other LW warplane and it will be better than fw189 

It can be used similarly to the Ju 87, to bomb specific targets. Almost the same speed and the 189 is probably a lot more maneuverable given that the wing loading seems to be far lower. So if you are attacked, you can probably out-turn any attacker. And while you are out turning the opponent, the rear gunner can hit the attacker.

Probably not that useful for MP, but for SP it might be a lot of fun. And it is not another 109 or 190.

[Vendigo]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

Probably not that useful for MP, but for SP it might be a lot of fun. And it is not another 109 or 190.

You are absolutely right! 

[Avimimus]

7 hours ago, faint said:

Where did Enigma get that list of bombers ?  Any off info ? And rly i cant understand why people is so happy about fw189…. most useless plane, no speed, no alt, no gunnery, no bombs (4x50 ist to poor)

1 hour ago, faint said:

so whats that mean ? Is that a fighter ? or bomber ? or jagdbomber ? or groundattacker ? No, thats useless plane. U can use ANY other LW warplane and it will be better than fw189 

Okay, in defence of the Fw-189's honour:

- Prior to 1942 it has twice the rear-quarter defensive firepower of any Luftwaffe bomber!  It also had a remarkably sharp turn radius.

- It gives us a German equivalent to the U-2VS (the 4xSC-50 bomb load is also pretty similar) and it can be used for spotting, liaison, reconnaissance, and night bombing roles.

Overall, reconnaissance is often treated dismissively by gamers. However, those interested in truly representing history should realise that a few critical photographs or observations can change an entire battle. This is the reason why the Ar-234B is potentially worth modelling (even if other types were more numerically important) - it has outsized impact. Recon flights were often dangerous, involving flying over the front lines or penetrating deep behind it with no or minimal escorts 'Alone, unarmed, and unafraid'.

As for artillery spotting - well, the heaviest armament commanded by any aircraft during the war was the armament commanded by artillery spotters - what other aircraft could command a half-dozen 105mm guns?!

7 minutes ago, Lofte said:

Let's be honest—the Fw-189 will be completely useless. Even more so than the Ju-52. As I already mentioned in the ru section, even the Ju-88S looks much more interesting. But the developers are going their own way... As usual...

In summary:

- Will it give you the highest kill ratio in multiplayer? No. But the best aircraft in multiplayer will always be limited to only the two or three types.

- Will it be an interesting experience in single-player? Yes. If you're open to it.

- Will it represent an important historical target that was often intercepted or escorted in historical campaigns (Odessa, Moscow, Stalingrad, Leningrad)? Very much so! It provides a very valuable target. I'll note that the Ju-52 fills a very important role for anyone simulating the Stalingrad airlift (whether it be in a dynamic campaign or a scripted campaign).

If you're even remotely interested in history you should value both planes.

[Nickkyboy99]

I'm really looking forward to the Fw-189. Can't wait to use it on the Finnish server to assist friendly tankers by spotting and directing them towards enemy tanks! 😁

[AEthelraedUnraed]

24 minutes ago, Lofte said:

Let's be honest—the Fw-189 will be completely useless.

Depends on your definition of "useless". Personally, I would grade a plane's "usefulness" by whether or not I enjoy flying the plane, rather than bomb load, performance, combat survivability and the like. I'm sure going to enjoy flying the little bugger so that makes the 189 a very useful plane in my book 🙂

[Dash,Polder]

It's all those useless little things that really add more dimension and complexity into our games combat environment.  

[Avimimus]

The Fw-189 is remarkable in its own way and very distinct:

Not only is it good for sight-seeing - but it should fly quite differently from the other aircraft we have:

It weighed less than 4000 kgs when fully loaded! (2690 kg empty). That makes this three seat type weigh less than a Fw-190!

At the same time it has a wingspan similar to a He-111!

This will give it an exceptionally low wing loading (only 9% higher than the I-153! However, wing interference due to the biplane design of the I-153 means that the Fw-189 will have a lower effective wing-loading than the Chaika. It will thus have the lowest effective wing-loading of any WWII aircraft in the sim and a remarkably small turn radius (combined with a 4x7.92mm tail sting).

Surely that has to be at least a bit interesting!

 

A couple of additional testimonials:

The Fw-189 was the famous test pilot Eric Brown's favourite personal transport - and I intend to copy his flights across the channel. It is worth noting that Eric Brown flew 487 types of aircraft over his career.

Finally, the design was so striking that the Soviet Union designed and flew an enlarged aircraft following the Fw-189's basic template (the Su-12) in 1947! Plans for series production were only scrapped in 1949!

[Avimimus]

2 hours ago, I/JG53_Kurtz said:

But I really don't understand the presence of P-47M... Built in very poor numbers (around 100) and by far less used compared to others US fighters, it would be better a P-38L as late american fighter or anything else.

The Fw-189 had over 860 built and is usable in four campaigns (rather than one)... so, from a historical perspective, it would seem to be a higher priority.

However, the P-47M could reach 473 mph (761 kmh) and had the rather useful addition of dive brakes. It will be the fastest Allied fighter in the sim. Being a P-47 with its larger turn radius and difficult handling characteristics, it will also have considerable challenges, making it a relatively balanced addition. I don't fault any fans of the aircraft wanting its inclusion, just like I don't fault the inclusion of the Fw-189 for the historical benefits it brings.

(Although, to be completely honest - the Fw-189 is an aircraft I've wanted in Il-2 for over a decade - its inclusion basically commands my undying loyalty. I'm now officially and irrevocably biased in favour of these developers. A real dream come true).

[Kubert]

I like to see FW-189 will be in the game. I read a lot about it, how was hated by soviets, because usually when it showed up, air attack or atillery strike followed soon. I am not planning to fly it, it's not my cup of tea, but it adds a bit of immersion for Soviet fighter pilot. I am not sure how it will be sold, if in a pack with other planes, or separately, but I will buy it anyway. I always support content which I consider to have an important role in the game. In my opinion FW-189's place in the game is more justifiable than Ta-152. What I found courious about this plane list, especially when focused on bombers, is missing JU-87B. Would be nice to meet iconic Stuka while defending Odessa, Leningrad and Moscow in 1941 and early 1942. Also thumb up for US bombers. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

The solid nose A20G is going to be flown by me a lot.  Much 50 caliber Browning love for German convoys, and the occasional Bf109. 

[LukeFF]

8 hours ago, faint said:

Any off info ? And rly i cant understand why people is so happy about fw189…. most useless plane, no speed, no alt, no gunnery, no bombs (4x50 ist to poor)

The Fw 189's historical significance stems primarily from its use as a reconnaissance platform, not as a light bomber. Extremely difficult to shoot down, and when they were, pilots were usually awarded quite lavishly. 

[Juri_JS]

Fun fact, the Fw-189 could also be equipped with the S 125 device for creating smoke screens. No idea if this saw much use, in the only instance I know it was used by seaplanes.

[sevenless]

16 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The solid nose A20G is going to be flown by me a lot.  Much 50 caliber Browning love for German convoys, and the occasional Bf109. 

Yep. I am waiting for this gem since the release of Bodenplatte. Happy times!

24 minutes ago, Kubert said:

 What I found courious about this plane list, especially when focused on bombers, is missing JU-87B. Would be nice to meet iconic Stuka while defending Odessa, Leningrad and Moscow in 1941 and early 1942. Also thumb up for US bombers. 

There is still 2027, isn´t it? Hs-123 is another one I´d like to see in the game. Who knows?

[Avimimus]

19 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

Fun fact, the Fw-189 could also be equipped with the S 125 device for creating smoke screens. No idea if this saw much use, in the only instance I know it was used by seaplanes.

It also had a night fighter variant in 1944... unfortunately, I suspect we won't see it because of a lack of reference materials and the presence of a radar - but it is still kind-of cool (the mid-upper gunner was replaced with an Mg-151 Schräge Musik)!

 

23 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

The Fw 189's historical significance stems primarily from its use as a reconnaissance platform, not as a light bomber. Extremely difficult to shoot down, and when they were, pilots were usually awarded quite lavishly. 

Yes! Very much. Small turn radius, low stall speed, a strong tail sting, and an inexplicable amount of durability.

While I agree entirely that its significance stems primarily from It reconnaissance role - after 1942 it was largely withdrawn from daylight recon. So, it is still nice that it has the light bomber role to let it have some use in the later scenarios in 1943/1944. I think it'll be a lot of fun to stage a few encounters between a Fw-189 harassment bomber and a U-2VS harassment bomber... it'll make for an interesting dogfight.

There is also some use for a scripted campaign - having the He-111 (used very successfully as a night fighter as well as a night bomber), the Ju-88C-6, the Fw-189, the Li-2VV, and the U-2VS... the night time might get really interesting and exotic... there is a lot of potential for some really interesting encounters.

[Avimimus]

 

38 minutes ago, Kubert said:

 What I found courious about this plane list, especially when focused on bombers, is missing JU-87B. Would be nice to meet iconic Stuka while defending Odessa, Leningrad and Moscow in 1941 and early 1942.

I agree that the Ju-87B/R would be very useful for Odessa, Moscow, and Leningrad. It ends up being a Ju-87D-3 with worse performance, a lower bomb load and a weaker defensive argument (whereas at least the Fw-189 stands out). So the question is how to raise the funds for it? It would have been nice if it had been part of the Siege and Liberation module (where the other aircraft could subsidise it). Maybe a third party could take it on? Crowd funding?

[mrtomek]

Of course I will be grateful for every new plane for IL-2, but please don't forget about some wonderful aircrafts that we have already in game which are a bit wasted or not fully utilized, for example:

1. No R4M and 1xSC500 for Ta-152

2. No radio-navigational equipment fo Mosquito (nor some simple radar)

3. Most important: no external racks for 4xSC50/SD70 for Me-410 and no possibility to take 4xWgr21 with bombs  (or some other rockets like this in Fw190 under wings)

4. There are definitely not enough scripted campaigns for this excellent planes (and many others too, like p-38 Lightning...)